Bearing Tree? (opinion)

that sure doesn't sound like a Lost Corner from here.

PS: the tree can be checked for a scribe without killing it

"now, go out and do the right thing" -Dr. Laura

Bearing Tree? Yes

Distance is correct, 5° magnetic difference over 140 years sounds in range. Check your historic declinations.

Have you searched 5' from the post for a possible marker?

How is the bearing each way along the line of proportionment?

I would definitely assume the post is the corner until I checked and measured it against other relavent corners.

Paul in PA

Where is the other one? Did you find a stump hole for the second one? That is what would make my level of confidence go up.

On the old board, I posted a picture of what I believed to be the original witness tree from 1854. It was a Post Oak. I took several "samples" of other witness trees in the area and compared growth to what I had found. When I put it all back together, it fit way better than it should have. It only had a blaze left on it.

We did not core it (like you would anyway) or cut the tree out to see the marks. I don't do that. The tree has stood for more than 160 years, I'm not going to kill it to prove that it is the three. There is always other evidence that you can use to prove it up. Growth rate for the area is an excellent one.

What sort of corner description do you have? Not being familiar with PLSS states I wonder if it's normal practice to have witness trees to an unmarked corner?

Here is what I think of:

Locate a similar size tree of the same species, in similar soil, that you can cut down, and study it.

Now, go take a core sample of the one you think may be the tree.

and, is there ANY other reference within 40 chains, ie, creek, line tree, road, or other in the field notes, to consider, to give you 2, or 3 items to go by?

N

What's the story on the "fence intersection?" are these fences running a half mile in all four directions, or are they enclosing 100' square pig pen? Have these fences been thought to mark the section line by the owners? Is your "proportioned" position going to upset 70 years of harmonious title developed in reliance upon the fence intersection? Does the BT simply corroborate what the landowners have known for 70 years? The BT may be the icing on the cake which elevates the corner from a "locally accepted" obliterated corner to an "existent" corner.

JBS

Use an increment borer. Get one from forestry supplier. Does not damage tree. I use mine all the time for BT identification.
Not only can give you a ring count, it will also reveal the scar face.
Oaks are deceptive in that the wound can completely heal. Evidence may be visible on the bark still. But after that length of time, and growing at the rate you describe, evidence of a blaze would be hard to discern.
My experience is that after that amount of time, you usually can't tell there is a blaze on a tree that had decent growth rate.

Again, increment borer is a fantastic tool for this. A little spendy, but very valuable. Any surveyor who evaluates BT evidence should have one in his/her tool collection.

Between the old fence corner and the tree the distance is right on; maybe 5' in angle?
I wouldn't really look to much at the prorated position.
If the fence is 70 plus and marks property lines it would be very difficult to throw it out for another solution.
Have you excavated or probed along and around the fence corner?

I agree with both clearcut, and Moe.

Good suggestions.

I'd suggest some serious excavation in a 10 ft radius of that old fence. Even if it were just with a probe.

Ya never knows... mebbe you find a square sandstone. or a buried rock pile. I have found both.

N

Pin oaks are one of the fastest growing trees out there. We have some pin oaks planted in the 1950's that are larger diameter than the burr oaks of the 1800's.

NATE!?!?!?

Nevermind. Reading comprehension was apparently overrated moments ago.

clearcut

Nevermind.

Pin Oak?

Lets be specific, since there are no Pin Oaks in East Texas (although everyone calls them that) what particular type of oak. What you call a Pin Oak may be really hard.

For the most part, Pin Oaks around here are either Water, Laurel or Willow Oaks. The last two make take a core (MAYBE) on a tree that big, the Water won't. You'll lose the bore.

POST OAK

In 1991 I found a 44" Post Oak bearing tree that I traced back in several deeds to a 30" Post Oak in 1937 and a 23" Post Oak in 1878. It was also referenced in a deed from 1865 but no size was given.

James

James

It was the patent tree in Freestone County. In Cherokee County, dad and I found two white oaks called for in deeds from 1864 when they were busting up a 1000-acre tract. Found the rock too.

Very cool finds.

Maybe it is, and maybe it ain't!

Only way to know for sure (ASSUMING that it was MARKED [scribed] in the first place) is to [probably] kill it. And even then, you might NOT KNOW for sure.

I agree with the folks above, who suggest extrinsic verification (if practical), and non-fatal (or hopefully non-fatal) acquisition of supporting evidence (like an increment bore and/or/plus passing/terrain calls in proximity to the "CORNER").

I have recovered "Bearing Trees" (Gambles Oak) dating to the 1880s in the Great Basin, and "Live/Black" Oaks (in the "foothills" of California) dating to the 1850s, but I wouldn't bet on finding another one (in either case) as long as I may live (I got lucky that day).

IF (big if maybe) the original MONUMENT was a Stone, then it's [probably] still in the same zip-code (keep looking/probing/scratching).

Good luck, and may the Force be with you...
🙂
Loyal