LOYAL
Yep, it's not there anymore :-@
From the September 1994 NGS datasheet CD -
QV0432 HORZ DATUM - NAD 83 (1992)
QV0432 VERT DATUM - NGVD 29
QV0432
QV0432 POSITION - 45 03 52.38542(N) 106 51 37.67746(W) ADJUSTED
QV0432 92 minus 83 - +00.00692 +00.01131 ADJUSTED
QV0432 83 minus 27 - -00.09017 +02.23933 NADCON
So even 19 years ago all NGS was providing was the NADCON shift.
I have here this pile of NGS datasheet CDs (North Central [IA IL IN KS MI MN MO MT ND NE SD WI WY] 1994 and 1996 through 2001; South Central [AR AZ CO LA NM NV OK TX UT] 1996) that I have been considering pitching. Not sure if they really provide any value.
If someone wants these CDs, make a $20.00 contribution to SurveyorConnect and I will mail all eight CDs to you at no additional charge.
GB
Loyal...Update
It appears that some datasheets still list the NAD27 values and some don't.
I need to investigate further why some of them no longer list the values.
Mighty
It doesn't look to me like the NGS ever published a NAD27 Coordinate on this point
(at least in the digital Datasheet format). Here's the 1993 Datasheet:
1 National Geodetic Survey, Retrieval Date = AUGUST 16, 1993
QV0432 ***********************************************************************
QV0432 DESIGNATION - MILL
QV0432 PID - QV0432
QV0432 STATE/COUNTY- MT/BIG HORN
QV0432 USGS QUAD - DECKER
QV0432
QV0432 HORZ DATUM - NAD 83 (1992)
QV0432 VERT DATUM - NGVD 29
QV0432
QV0432 POSITION - 45 03 52.38542(N) 106 51 37.67746(W) ADJUSTED
QV0432 92 minus 83 +00.00692 +00.01131 ADJUSTED
QV0432 83 minus 27 - -00.09017 +02.23933 NADCON
QV0432
QV0432 HEIGHT - 1204.8 (meters) 3953. (feet) VERT ANGLE
QV0432 88 minus 29 - +0.7 VERTCON
QV0432 ***********************************************************************
QV0432 LAPLACE CORR- -5.49 DEFLEC93
QV0432 GEOID HEIGHT- -13.86 GEOID93
QV0432
QV0432 HORZ ORDER - THIRD
QV0432
QV0432.The horizontal position was established by classical geodetic methods
QV0432.and adjusted by the National Geodetic Survey in July 1992.
QV0432
QV0432.The orthometric height was determined by vertical angle observations.
QV0432
QV0432.The Laplace correction was computed from DEFLEC93 derived deflections.
QV0432
QV0432.The geoid height was determined by GEOID93.
QV0432
QV0432; North East Scale Converg.
QV0432;SPC MT - 94,040.338 807,837.815 0.99996187 +1 55 51.0 MT
QV0432;UTM 13 - 4,991,804.990 353,531.584 0.99986379 -1 19 02.1 MT
QV0432
QV0432_STATION MARK IS A TRIANGULATION STATION DISK
QV0432_WITH SETTING: SET IN A DRILL HOLE IN BEDROCK
QV0432_STABILITY: MOST RELIABLE AND EXPECTED TO HOLD
QV0432+STABILITY: POSITION/ELEVATION WELL
QV0432
QV0432 HISTORY - Year Condition Recov. By
QV0432 HISTORY - 1966 STATION MONUMENTED US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY
QV0432
QV0432 STATION DESCRIPTION
QV0432
QV0432'DESCRIBED BY US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY 1966
QV0432'STATION IS ABOUT 18 MI. N. AND 5 MI. E. OF SHERIDAN, WYOMING, AND
QV0432'ABOUT 4 MI. N. OF DECKER, MONTANA, IN BIG HORN COUNTY, MONTANA.
QV0432'
QV0432'STATION IS ON THE N. END OF A PROMINENT RED BUTTE ABOUT 3 MI. W.
QV0432'OF THE S. END OF TONGUE RIVER RESERVOIR.
QV0432'
QV0432'TO REACH FROM T-RD. E. AT DECKER, MONTANA, PROCEED N. ON GRAVEL RD.
QV0432'3.2 MI. TO TRACK RD. W. AT WINDMILL. TURN LEFT (W.) AND PROCEED
QV0432'0.8 MI. TO DIM TRACK RD. S. TURN LEFT (S.) AND PICK WAY CROSS
QV0432'COUNTRY S. AND E. 0.9 MI. TO FENCE CORNER AND WIRE GATE. PASS THRU
QV0432'GATE AND PICK WAY CROSS COUNTRY S. AND W. 0.6 MI. TO BOTTOM OF N.
QV0432'END OF PROMINENT RED BUTTE. LEAVE TRUCK AND PACK UP N. END OF BUTTE
QV0432'TO STATION. ABOUT A 5-MINUTE PACK.
QV0432'
QV0432'STATION MARK--STANDARD TABLET CEMENTED IN BURIED ROCK,
QV0432'STAMPED---MILL ET 1966--.
QV0432'
Here's the 1997 Datasheet:
1 National Geodetic Survey, Retrieval Date = OCTOBER 20, 1997
QV0432 ***********************************************************************
QV0432 DESIGNATION - MILL
QV0432 PID - QV0432
QV0432 STATE/COUNTY- MT/BIG HORN
QV0432 USGS QUAD - DECKER (1979)
QV0432
QV0432 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL
QV0432 ___________________________________________________________________
QV0432* NAD 83(1993)- 45 03 52.39201(N) 106 51 37.68793(W) ADJUSTED
QV0432* NAVD 88 - 1205.5 (meters) 3955. (feet) VERTCON
QV0432 ___________________________________________________________________
QV0432 LAPLACE CORR- -6.01 (seconds) DEFLEC96
QV0432 GEOID HEIGHT- -14.30 (meters) GEOID96
QV0432
QV0432 HORZ ORDER - THIRD
QV0432
QV0432.The horizontal coordinates were established by classical geodetic methods
QV0432.and adjusted by the National Geodetic Survey in January 1997.
QV0432
QV0432.The NAVD 88 height was computed by applying the VERTCON shift value to
QV0432.the NGVD 29 height (displayed under SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL.)
QV0432
QV0432.The Laplace correction was computed from DEFLEC96 derived deflections.
QV0432
QV0432.The geoid height was determined by GEOID96.
QV0432
QV0432; North East Units Scale Converg.
QV0432;SPC MT - 94,040.534 807,837.579 MT 0.99996187 +1 55 51.0
QV0432;UTM 13 - 4,991,805.199 353,531.360 MT 0.99986379 -1 19 02.2
QV0432
QV0432 SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL
QV0432
QV0432 NAD 83(1986)- 45 03 52.37850(N) 106 51 37.66615(W) ADJUSTED
QV0432 NAD 83(1992)- 45 03 52.38542(N) 106 51 37.67746(W) ADJUSTED
QV0432 NGVD 29 - 1204.8 (meters) 3953. (feet) VERT ANG
QV0432
QV0432.Superseded values are not recommended for survey control.
QV0432.NGS no longer adjusts projects to the NAD 27 or NGVD 29 datums.
QV0432.See file format.dat to determine how the superseded data were derived.
QV0432
QV0432_MARKER: DS = TRIANGULATION STATION DISK
QV0432_SETTING: 66 = SET IN ROCK OUTCROP
QV0432_STABILITY: A = MOST RELIABLE AND EXPECTED TO HOLD
QV0432+STABILITY: POSITION/ELEVATION WELL
QV0432
QV0432 HISTORY - Date Condition Recov. By
QV0432 HISTORY - 1966 MONUMENTED USGS
QV0432
QV0432 STATION DESCRIPTION
QV0432
QV0432'DESCRIBED BY US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY 1966
QV0432'STATION IS ABOUT 18 MI. N. AND 5 MI. E. OF SHERIDAN, WYOMING, AND
QV0432'ABOUT 4 MI. N. OF DECKER, MONTANA, IN BIG HORN COUNTY, MONTANA.
QV0432'
QV0432'STATION IS ON THE N. END OF A PROMINENT RED BUTTE ABOUT 3 MI. W.
QV0432'OF THE S. END OF TONGUE RIVER RESERVOIR.
QV0432'
QV0432'TO REACH FROM T-RD. E. AT DECKER, MONTANA, PROCEED N. ON GRAVEL RD.
QV0432'3.2 MI. TO TRACK RD. W. AT WINDMILL. TURN LEFT (W.) AND PROCEED
QV0432'0.8 MI. TO DIM TRACK RD. S. TURN LEFT (S.) AND PICK WAY CROSS
QV0432'COUNTRY S. AND E. 0.9 MI. TO FENCE CORNER AND WIRE GATE. PASS THRU
QV0432'GATE AND PICK WAY CROSS COUNTRY S. AND W. 0.6 MI. TO BOTTOM OF N.
QV0432'END OF PROMINENT RED BUTTE. LEAVE TRUCK AND PACK UP N. END OF BUTTE
QV0432'TO STATION. ABOUT A 5-MINUTE PACK.
QV0432'
QV0432'STATION MARK--STANDARD TABLET CEMENTED IN BURIED ROCK,
QV0432'STAMPED---MILL ET 1966--.
These are directly from the OLD NGS CDs (1993 & 1997)
Now the old Paper Datasheets would be a different story.
Loyal
Loyal...Update
As you can see above, I have the 1993 @ 1997 NGS CDs, so I can check a few for you if you wish.
Loyal
Loyal...Update
No, it's ok Loyal, I think I may know what's happened, there are no NAD27 numbers in this area on other monuments, I just never needed them so I wasn't looking for it. I have most of the NAD27 control sheets in the area, this one is an exception, but I found the value anyway in some data.
It's good to know they aren't deleting them, kinda wonder just how long these sheets will get over time though.
Investigating further
Basis of Distances:
> All distances shown hereon are based on 2640.00 feet between the Southwest Corner, and West ¼ Corner of said Section 16, as shown on the 18?? GLO Plat.
>
> Loyal
Hey....you're on to something that can remedy those pesky lots that become 1/1000 under the minimum acreage for the counties......"All distances based on 250' between the Northwest and the Southwest oorners of lot 2, as shown on the 19XX "original" subdivision plat."
