We have been running Topcon 233w units with TDS Ranger data collectors for 12 years now(talk about needing to upgrade). Anyway the only times I've seen this happen is; one if you are in the horizontal offset mode and take the distance shot before you aim center, or two when the total station gets 3-4 years old the plastic pieces that hold the glass angle plates in place start to break down. When they break down they leave an oily residue on the plate that causes a dead spot in the angle and that produces a zero or nonexistent angle.
That can NOT be caused by tracking , others have suggested. No way for it to track a prism to a vertical angle of zero (straight up). You would have to remove the remove the robot handle. Also no way it would track to exactly zero horizontal and vertical for that many shots. It appears to be a communication error between controller software and the robot hardware. I have never seen this issue with TopSurv or Magnet. So it is likley a TDS issue.
Paul, post: 369856, member: 624 wrote: In the past, I've seen where a field crew will come back with data stacked up on whatever control point they were setup on. I always assumed/was told that it was a problem with the particular instrument/software we were using at the time. Haven't seen it at this new organization. Now, all of a sudden, I just saw it on a project that my crew did the day before yesterday (with a newer Topcon robot - bought new in 2014). It wasn't all of the shots, but about a dozen points (randomly throughout the job) were all stacked up onto the occupy point. Here is what the raw data looks like for the bad shots:
SS,OP8,FP1160,AR0.000000,ZE0.000000,SD40.056575,--NDTOP3
SS,OP8,FP1161,AR0.000000,ZE0.000000,SD30.111575,--NDTOP3
SS,OP8,FP1162,AR0.000000,ZE0.000000,SD31.641575,--NDTOP3
SS,OP8,FP1163,AR0.000000,ZE0.000000,SD36.981575,--NDTOP3
SS,OP8,FP1164,AR0.000000,ZE0.000000,SD42.881575,--NDTOP3
SS,OP8,FP1165,AR0.000000,ZE0.000000,SD49.226575,--NDTOP3
SS,OP8,FP1166,AR0.000000,ZE0.000000,SD57.536575,--NDTOP3Here are the coordinates:
1160,9824.636,12214.263,1070.148,NDTOP3
1161,9824.636,12214.263,1060.203,NDTOP3
1162,9824.636,12214.263,1061.733,NDTOP3
1163,9824.636,12214.263,1067.073,NDTOP3
1164,9824.636,12214.263,1072.973,NDTOP3
1165,9824.636,12214.263,1079.318,NDTOP3
1166,9824.636,12214.263,1087.628,NDTOP3It seems to measure the slope distance just fine, but not the angle right or zenith angle, which in essence makes the points calculate as straight up into the air.
Anyone see this before and have a good explanation of how/why and how to stop it? We just always tried to be vigilant in the past, but there wasn't any real way to know other than keeping an eye on the zenith angle on the data collector for each and every shot, and we never figured out how to eliminate it (as far as I remember).
Thanks,
Paul
Never seen that. I have seen it get hung on a car reflector and have a half dozen shots in a parking lot before I caught it though.
Kris Morgan, post: 369961, member: 29 wrote: I have seen it get hung on a car reflector and have a half dozen shots in a parking lot before I caught it though.
In my early robot days (not all that many years ago) I once took over 60 shots to the backsight before noticing it.
Some of us like to learn the hard way.
Jim Frame, post: 369966, member: 10 wrote: In my early robot days (not all that many years ago) I once took over 60 shots to the backsight before noticing it.
Some of us like to learn the hard way.
Had the same problem with my topcon robot, locked on the backsight and took a bunch of shots. That is how I learned to watch the collector and make sure the horizontal angle and distance change or to turn the glass on my backsight if taking shots towards the backsight.
Jim Frame, post: 369966, member: 10 wrote: In my early robot days (not all that many years ago) I once took over 60 shots to the backsight before noticing it.
Some of us like to learn the hard way.
Because of that incident, before each shot, I routinely move the rod back and forth to see if the azimuth is changing so that I know it's locked on me.
Jim Frame, post: 369966, member: 10 wrote: In my early robot days (not all that many years ago) I once took over 60 shots to the backsight before noticing it.
Some of us like to learn the hard way.
Yeah, me too. I've also turned multiple sets to the backsite.
Using a robot is sometimes like having a really stupid and half-blind instrument man.
Gromaticus, post: 369984, member: 597 wrote: Yeah, me too. I've also turned multiple sets to the backsite.
Using a robot is sometimes like having a really stupid and half-blind instrument man.
Except the instrument man is really the one running the rod. 🙂
mvanhank222, post: 369938, member: 8673 wrote: Did it happen at the end of a setup. That's what it looks like when our Sokkia goes out of level past compensation and you take a shot.
It should not take a measurement if it is "Out of Range".
A little more info from my previous post. I'm going by memory here because when it happened to me it was several years ago. I was running the gun and I'm almost positive it wasn't doing any kind of offset when it happened. This gun wouldn't have had any kind of reflectorless ability even. I think it was before we had bluetooth, so it would have been with a chord. I've never seen our gun be able to take a shot when it isn't level so I don't think that was the case either. When I looked at the raw data, all the zenith angles were zero. The rest of the data looked normal. I can't remember the exact number, but I would say it was about 20 shots, and they were the last ones before we picked up and left. It didn't make me any too happy since it was about an hours drive to go back and get the bad shots again.
Like I say, it happened once only and that was probably 10 years ago.
mvanhank222, post: 369938, member: 8673 wrote: Did it happen at the end of a setup. That's what it looks like when our Sokkia goes out of level past compensation and you take a shot.
I am currently using a Topcon PS with SP Survey Pro on a TSC3. Funny thing, today I was on a construction site when I started getting oddball stakeouts. I then noticed that the angle and zenith were 0å¼00'00", but the distance was continuing to update. Hmmm. Haven't seen that before. But it seems somehow familiar....
Turns out that the instrument had been bumped out of level. Once I set up again everything was fine. So I think I've identified the OP's problem.
pmoran, post: 369991, member: 8922 wrote: It should not take a measurement if it is "Out of Range".
You'd think. That's what always happened in TSC/Access. One more reason to not like Survey Pro.
Another reason why you need to match vendors hardware and software to get 100% compatibility.
I have observed an issue with the Topcon QS series robot using a FC 2500 DC w/Topsurv software. In that it appears to query and send the distance measurement separately and sequentially from the angular measurements. I have observed twice now where I was taking a shot when a car went by. The gun would lock on the car and go spinning after it. In both cases it recorded the shot and the distance was correct to my point of observation, but the angles were way off and spun in the direction of the passing car it followed. It appears it sends out the distance measurement to the DC and then starts sending the angular measurements some time afterwards, enough time where it has actually gone tracking a car after the distance recording but before the angular recording.
Sounds like it might be a related issue on Topcon's behalf. I would add that I was very disappointed in Topcon's response. I tried talking to the Topcon Techs through Topcon University, but had no luck. My dealer rep also got involved and tried to get answers but to no avail. All in all I'm glad I'm not having to use the QS anymore as it caused me several headaches including the one I mentioned above.
clearcut, post: 370036, member: 297 wrote: I have observed an issue with the Topcon QS series robot using a FC 2500 DC w/Topsurv software. In that it appears to query and send the distance measurement separately and sequentially from the angular measurements. I have observed twice now where I was taking a shot when a car went by. The gun would lock on the car and go spinning after it. In both cases it recorded the shot and the distance was correct to my point of observation, but the angles were way off and spun in the direction of the passing car it followed. It appears it sends out the distance measurement to the DC and then starts sending the angular measurements some time afterwards, enough time where it has actually gone tracking a car after the distance recording but before the angular recording.
Sounds like it might be a related issue on Topcon's behalf. I would add that I was very disappointed in Topcon's response. I tried talking to the Topcon Techs through Topcon University, but had no luck. My dealer rep also got involved and tried to get answers but to no avail. All in all I'm glad I'm not having to use the QS anymore as it caused me several headaches including the one I mentioned above.
send me a PM with your info.
leegreen, post: 370032, member: 2332 wrote: Another reason why you need to match vendors hardware and software to get 100% compatibility.
That makes sense, however it will probably be another 5 to 8 years before we get a chance to buy a new gun, and or data collector.
clearcut, post: 370036, member: 297 wrote: I have observed an issue with the Topcon QS series robot using a FC 2500 DC w/Topsurv software. In that it appears to query and send the distance measurement separately and sequentially from the angular measurements. I have observed twice now where I was taking a shot when a car went by. The gun would lock on the car and go spinning after it. In both cases it recorded the shot and the distance was correct to my point of observation, but the angles were way off and spun in the direction of the passing car it followed. It appears it sends out the distance measurement to the DC and then starts sending the angular measurements some time afterwards, enough time where it has actually gone tracking a car after the distance recording but before the angular recording.
Sounds like it might be a related issue on Topcon's behalf. I would add that I was very disappointed in Topcon's response. I tried talking to the Topcon Techs through Topcon University, but had no luck. My dealer rep also got involved and tried to get answers but to no avail. All in all I'm glad I'm not having to use the QS anymore as it caused me several headaches including the one I mentioned above.
This sounds similar to our issue. I like Mark's out of level idea. Perhaps being just out of level triggers this flaw you found somehow. I'm going to do some more testing.
Thanks!
Sent from my LG-D321 using Tapatalk
I run a QS with TDS software, if the gun is out of level, TDS won't let you take a shot. It just beeps until it drives you mad.