NC A & T Geomatics Online Link
Buyer beware, it might not be ABET-accredited. The program description didn't mention ABET, which was a red flag. I looked up NC A&T at abet.org and didn't see a BS in Geomatics listed:
http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=410
They claim that the "four year program in Geomatics prepares you to sit for the first of two exams that lead to professional licensure in Surveying."
Since sitting for the exams is decided at the state level, their claim might be accurate for NC. However, another state might require a degree from an ABET-accredited program.
NC A & T Geomatics Online Link
> Buyer beware, it might not be ABET-accredited. The program description didn't mention ABET, which was a red flag. I looked up NC A&T at abet.org and didn't see a BS in Geomatics listed:
>
>> http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=410
>
> They claim that the "four year program in Geomatics prepares you to sit for the first of two exams that lead to professional licensure in Surveying."
>
> Since sitting for the exams is decided at the state level, their claim might be accurate for NC. However, another state might require a degree from an ABET-accredited program.
One of the requirements for ABET accreditation is a certain number of graduates from the program. A&T hasn't existed long enough to get that number of graduates. Once they do (and satisfy a hand full of other requirements) they will receive that status. As I understand it, once that happens all graduates from the program can claim to have graduated from an accredited program.
Larry P
NC A & T Civil Engineering BS Is ABET Accredited
and has been since 1990.
Their Computer Engineering BS was accredited in 2008.
Had the Geomatics BS been under the Civil Engineering department ABET would be easy.
Geomatics at NCA&T is under the Technology department, so it will get looked at separately. The program is so new that no graduate has sat for the PS exam. ABET will be on campus in 2013-2014 re-evaluating the Civil Engineering and Computer Engineering programs, so they may look at the Geomatics at the same time. ABET is results oriented, BS Geomatics students have passed the FS, so a good showing on upcoming PS exams couldbe all that is needed.
While I was attending surveying classes at NJIT, ABET examiners were also there re-evaluating.
An interesting sidenote, an older brother of mine received an Associate of Technology degree in Mechanical Engineering from Penn State Allentown (local). He then continued at the Penn State Harrisburg campus and received a Bachelor of Technolgy in Mechanical Engineering. A few years after he graduated that program became ABET accredited as a Bachelor of Science degree. Penn State sent him a new diploma reissued as a BS. It is not just what a college does in educating, but also what the students do with that education.
Paul in PA
NC A & T Civil Engineering BS Is ABET Accredited
You and Larry have explained an awful lot about ABET accreditation. To be honest I've never given it much thought. The extent of my knowledge was:
1) ABET accreditation is important
2) NJIT (where I studied) was ABET accredited
Now I'm all poking around their website and stuff.
NC A & T Geomatics Online Link
I had several classes under Jerry Nave at ETSU. He's a good guy.
More On ABET
I just checked, NJIT (actually Newark College of Engineering), Lafayette College and Lehigh University Civil ABET accredited since 1936. I would assume that is the ABET start date.
I also checked on Penn States Capitol Campus, their Mechanical Engineering Technology BS has been accredited since 1973. My brother graduated there in 1969 or so.
A lot of people do not fully understand ABET. I do know that their teams actually attend classes, so they might have to get creative for a college that was only online. Even State Professional Board members don't quite follow it all. At my Board hearing regarding getting to sit for the PS exam, one board member opined that he did not think my credits from Lehigh and NJIT were actually ABET accredited and wondered about the quality of NJIT. With that the board member sitting next to him stated that he had graduated from NJIT, or more likely it's predescessor NCE. I just had to jump in and reminded the board that the PA state law required them to tell me what programs were approved not vice versa.
Paul in PA
Several comments on ABET:
1. Having taught more than 25 years in college level surveying programs, I have been involved in ABET activities since the 1980's. I was Chair of an ABET Commission in 2000-2001.
2. ABET accredits only programs, not schools, departments, or instructors.
3. ABET will visit/evaluate a program only at the invitation of the institution and only after there is at least 1 graduate.
4. Once evaluated and approved, an institution MAY be permitted to claim accreditation for degrees awarded prior to the actual visit. But, be careful and check the fine print!!! I believe such retro-active accreditation applies only to a degree/program having the same courses as those of the program evaluated.
Bachelor in Surveying, I Believe ABET Is The Key
Great Basin is in the process of getting ABET approved. I've taken classes and know the lead guy well. One thing they needed was another qualified instructor. They got approval late last year to make the hire. I don't know if they have the new person in place yet. So the path to ABET has been accelerated from the original plan. Once Great Basin is ABET it will extend backwards to previous graduates.
I'm already licensed and take the classes to get my continuing ed. I'm not that far from being able to get a BS from Great Basin. About the only reason I'd have at this point would be to get my name in the paper as a guy in his sixties graduating from college. Already did that a long time ago so probably won't happen.
Utah did accept my classes from Great Basin and University of Wyoming to meet the survey education requirements for licensing. I've sort of lost interest in the whole process since then. I think Utah will soon go to a four year degree requirement as a new 4-year program has been started a Utah Valley State University. I doubt the ABET requirement will kick in for Utah until that program is accredited.
For those interested, if you only take classes online from Great Basin then the cost is about $200 per credit hour. That's lower than out of state rates but more than instate. Don't expect it to be easy. You will need to work hard and you will learn.
What Programs Did You Visit ?
2000-2001 was the time frame for an NJIT ABET visit.
How many schools does a Commision take on in a year?
With only 25 ABET programs, doing all pograms within a cycle does not appear undoable.
Would a survey program commission consist only of survey instructors from other ABET programs?
How many not yet ABET programs might a cycle include?
How much do you take back to your own program?
How much can a program change before affecting accreditation?
Paul in PA
What Programs Did You Visit ?
Paul, I will be able to answer some, but not all, of your questions.
1. Many answers can be found on a list of ABET programs at this link. Note that surveying programs are accredited in three different ABET commissions (TAC, EAC and ASAC).
2. The normal ABET cycle is 6 years. An initial accreditation in 1994 would have been up for re-evaluation 6 years later.
3. NJIT is accredited by the Technology Accreditation Commission. I served on the Engineering-Related Accreditation Commission (now known as the Applied Science Accreditation Commission - ASAC).
4. As a Commission member, I visited almost as many non-surveying (e.g. Industrial Hygiene) programs as surveying programs.
5. Commission members are listed in the ABET Annual Report - see ABET web site. There are surveying members, but not a majority, on TAC, EAC, and ASAC. For the current year members you may need to direct an inquiry to ABET.
6. One builds on all experiences (visits) and collaborates with colleagues in the design and implementation of local programs. Of course, such is also subject to ABET criteria and local administrative policies and edicts.
7. Each institution is responsible to report significant changes (those which might affect accreditation) to ABET. I know from experience that "self-reporting" is a weak link in the process. What is significant to one is not necessarily significant to others. But, the comprehensive self-study compiled by the institution and reviewed every 6 years by ABET provides assurance of continuing quality. There are exceptions but corrective actions are often implemented and programs are rarely "unaccredited" by ABET. If a program is no longer accredited it is usually because the institution decided not to invite ABET in for a re-evaluation (each review is rather costly for the institution - the instituion must decide if seeking accreditation is worth the cost).
8. Surveying criteria for ABET accreditation are developed by the ACSM (now NSPS) CARE Committee - ask Curt Sumner at NSPS for more details.
Thanks
Good education.
Paul in PA
