Asbuilt Question

I have always locate pipe as it is covered for an asbuilt. I do not intend to change that. When I locate pipe after it has been buried that is not an asbuilt. That is an approximate location for design work.B-)

We have done several like this (when I worked for the city) but they were placed by our inspector so we had an extra level of comfort, plus we had his 'asbuilt' notes as to what and where.

I would do it for a private contractor but I'd come up with some sort of disclaimer about 'located based upon XXX type marker'. The problem is not so much the actual location (since it's only a day or so and the trench is fresh) but what sort of valve, etc is located at any given point since it's now covered up.

If it's mostly for location purposes then I'd roll with it.

I'll agree with you Stephen on many types of asbuilts. Especially one where you are marking welds and metal joints. Waterlines though , especially smaller ones, tend to shuck and jive with the small trenchers they use. That would not be the same though on a 24" or up to me and ductile iron.

And in an open field it doesn't matter to much the depth (as long as it meets the minimum cover) but it really impacts a road design if a line is next to a road that is going to be reconstructed and has changing vertical curves and side slopes.

Depends on what they might be calling an asbuilt. It its to locate it in a map then I'm fine with the plastic markers.

The liability associated with doing an asbuilt survey is HUGE. Several reasons are as follows:

1. "As-Built" means that you are essentially guaranteeing the location that the line is. If it is off by a few inches, you could be responsible for a huge liability if someone hits it. We don't like the term "As-Built." I prefer instead to use some other term than "As Built." you have not seen the pipe, and you cannot be positive that it is marked precisely.

2. Public water supply contamination is also a threat. If you mislocate even a tiny part of it, and a public sewer main is installed closer than the state clearance limit, you could be liable not only for the physical location, but contamination of a public water supply.

3. If you survey something and call it "As Built" and you have not physically seen it, ethics may be involved, especially if something goes haywire.

4. Probing until you find rigid object does not identify the water pipe. An old trench is not necessarily the location of the pipe. Could be anything.

Maybe you could call the survey something that tells exactly what you did instead of an "As Built." Maybe call it a survey of marks and indicators of the location of a buried water pipe, said marks pointed out to you by ..............

My $0.02 worth..........

> The liability associated with doing an asbuilt survey is HUGE. Several reasons are as follows:
>
> 1. "As-Built" means that you are essentially guaranteeing the location that the line is. If it is off by a few inches, you could be responsible for a huge liability if someone hits it. We don't like the term "As-Built." I prefer instead to use some other term than "As Built." you have not seen the pipe, and you cannot be positive that it is marked precisely.
>
> 2. Public water supply contamination is also a threat. If you mislocate even a tiny part of it, and a public sewer main is installed closer than the state clearance limit, you could be liable not only for the physical location, but contamination of a public water supply.
>
> 3. If you survey something and call it "As Built" and you have not physically seen it, ethics may be involved, especially if something goes haywire.
>
> 4. Probing until you find rigid object does not identify the water pipe. An old trench is not necessarily the location of the pipe. Could be anything.
>
>
> Maybe you could call the survey something that tells exactly what you did instead of an "As Built." Maybe call it a survey of marks and indicators of the location of a buried water pipe, said marks pointed out to you by ..............
>
> My $0.02 worth..........

1. In Oklahoma they mark lines every day (1-800-Call-Okie) that are not close to inches. You are responsible for hand digging if you think a line is even close. And everyone is responsible for using our call Okie system if they are breaking ground.
2. I just don't see that as a problem unless you are within a very tight confine of a municipal system and in that case they would not be asking you to locate based on plastic markers, or shouldn't be.
3. I don't see that as a problem. The line was buried and you located the trench line.
4. It's not a historic digging. It is only a day old or maybe a little more. It's a fresh line put in the ground.Now probing is for depths and we have all done them. I love getting depths on a fresh trench. 🙂
But I agree that a disclaimer should be formulated for your map. (I didn't say plat you'll notice). But just map.

I have done that at every joint in a 6" waterline for about 600 feet. I was the one running the rod and could tell if I had contacted a PVC pipe with some confidence, the vertical pipe was 4", I also had years of experience with that contractor. My preference is to shoot it before back filling but I can't be at two places at once but the job needs to go on.
jud

I feel it is an As-built.....
Just have a note stating that you are as builting(sp?) a 2" vertical pipe placed by the contractor at said bends, flanges, valves etc. denoted on the plan as such....
Have a detail sketch of the trench cross-section and reference the plans.

OR.... work all night.... sleep all day and nail that son of a gun, balls on!!!!

Sure, would have no problem as long as it was documented in writing the exact methods used, then would locate the top of the pipe as well for comparison and CYA.

If they take time to plumb a 2" sleeve, the top of actual joint should be visible. If it is leaning so that you can't get plumb, be certain to code that shot differently.

I have certified A/Bs this way several times, works well as long as you trust the contractor, Usually also had the super and the pipe foreman sign the asbuilt also...

I will give you advise gained from 13 years of preparing as builts for clients mapping both buried and no buried projects.
It would be best on small OD pipe to shoot it while it is being backfilled if this is not possible place a removable stake or lath on top of the pipe with a standard length so you can record the depth remove after you have completed your location.
Next include surface control along the pipeline. We use GPS only to establish control and adjust this control network. We then use a total station to prepare our as built. Doing this insures that at a later date you can go back and establish the location
If the pipe has been backfilled or is covered if it is plastic or other non metalic we use one of our Sub-Surface AML units and double check depth by probing. If it is metalic or has a tracer wire we will use the PL-2000 but if even if plastic with tracer we will probe the line at 200 ft intervels since tracer tape or wire can end up anywhere in the trench.We furnish our clients with GIS As builts to +/- 0.5 ft accuracies. If you are going to sign and seal an as built be confident that if you were to go back to the site you can stick a probling rod in the ground and hit the target.
Jerry K. Price

Y'all our a bunch of scaredy cats. If something like this intimidates you, how are you comfortable making those big boundary determinations?

Can you number/identify each 2" pvc pipe and take a picture?

There is a local Authority that requires this type of "As-Built" as part of the plan review/project approval process. They require location every 100 feet in tangent and every 50 in curves plus all bends and fittings. From what I have seen over the last 10 years there have been no major problems. One question though. Are you required to remove the pipes after location or is the contractor? Doesn't sound like a big deal but if you're locating miles of pipeline the time for removal adds up quickly.

Andy

> ...a large portion of the construction will be done at night

my 2 cents: I think this call for a bit of night work

"As Marked By Others" My favorite words on a topo plan...

> Y'all our a bunch of scaredy cats. If something like this intimidates you, how are you comfortable making those big boundary determinations?

good point. As long as you put the CYA statement about not locating the actual pipe.