Doing an ALTA survey. Client requests that all easements come with a metes & bounds description. This is for an existing apartment complex.
In researching the parcel, I come across a recorded map that depicts the easements. One is a school bus easement, but there is no m&b description. Basically its lines on a piece of paper. The deed for the easement says see the 'map'.
I can discern the intent of said school bus easement because if I overlay the easement onto my map I can see they wanted (apparently so) the easement of fall in the aisles of the parking lot.
I could make the easement fit the original intent and write up a description, but I cant say for sure that's were the easement is...then again, how could one prove me wrong? The original easement is just lines on a map.
Can you just say "Easement across parking lot for access by school buses per Bk/Pg, no dimensions or precise location specified."
That is probably the best answer. Do not blindside the client. Let them know this is the only way you can do it. Not too much different than writing a blanket easement metes and bounds description, meaningless you see.
You should never issue a unilateral decision affecting the rights of your client as they contrast with the rights of whomever is the beneficiary of any easement. It is either clear and indisuptable or it is not. This is not.
One point of detail that I encountered about easements and bus traffic.
While a bus can follow most easements of adequate width for any other vehicle on a straight path, when the bus has to turn and follow curves and especially a 90° bend, the pathway for a bus requires an extra amount of width than most other vehicles because of their longer wheelbase.
I remember going to the local DOT design office where they had a chart relating to minimum requirements by vehicle type and size.
0.02
:good:
Thats what I want to say...but they want a M&B description.
ALTA Easement question>Ignore Pompous Cow 🙂
If you can discern the in the intent of the easement and reduce it to a metes and bonds description then do so.
Only you can make the decision as to whether the sketch that you have referred to can adequetly be reduced to a description. I'm of the mind that, based on what oyu said, you can place it on the gornd and if so, then you can describe it.
This happens all the time with boundaries, why should an easement location be any different? Make an informed decision, and place the easement!
Dtp
ALTA Easement question>Ignore Pompous Cow 🙂
I'll have you know my single greatest asset is my humility, humbleness, humblesence. I am definitely more humbler than most.;-)
My problem with taking a paper easement and turning into definite points on the ground is that the creators of the paper easement couldn't do a proper job in the first place. My assumptions open me to liability beyond the standard liabilities in this case. I can picture a future court case where there has been some sort of incident in that parking lot and it is shown this happened because the bus was one foot outside of where I drew the line. Suddenly, everyone wants to know how that became a fixed location instead of some fuzzy line on a rough sketch. They also want to know if there is any written guidance from the affected parties telling me how to convert that fuzzy line to a definite easement line.
We do outer boundary determination all the time. That is our job. It is not our job to out-think the creators of a rough sketch of something that was based on a bunch of parking stripes that will move every time they resurface the parking lot or simply repaint the stripes.
ALTA Easement question>Ignore Pompous Cow 🙂
Respectfully disagreee pontificating cow. I kind of figured this would light a fire under that burger butt!
In the words of one under appreciated surveyor, "If not the land surveyor, then whom?"
I believe that it is our repsonsibility to resolve these sorts of conflicts. Of course we have to have a defensible postion, and be able to relate that determination to the client, or the world if necessary.
We are paid to make these decisions, assume that liability, and lay that easement on the ground. And if we can lay it on the ground, we can desribe it.
It is not dis-similar to laying out a bondary when all you have to start is a deed wiht a bounding description. Sooner or later you are going tohave to make a decision!
Dtp
ALTA Easement question>Ignore Pompous Cow 🙂
Gentlemen,
The courts have reiterated many times that "..boundary determination from a deed is a matter of law."
We as surveyors may at times determine boundary locations from discernable evidence of previous surveys, occupation or natural bounds that agree with the deed.
IMHO, I'm with my bovine buddy. Attempting to confine a dominant estate's (grantee of the easement) rights with a mathematical description from a sketch is, well sketchy...not that it wouldn't be easy enough, you cannot confine the easement holder's rights as casually as that.
I remember a Judge once asking a surveyor, "Where did you get your crystal ball, I want one" when the surveyor was expounding on what he believed was the "intent" of a document. Food for thought.
Food for thought:
2 years from now, child is run over by a bus and killed. Bus company and apartment complex are sued. Lawyers swarm in and want to know if bus was within easement area. They would pull your ALTA and....(you fill in the rest).
ALTA Easement question>Ignore Pompous Cow 🙂
The first survey had an "inadequate" description if it can't be laid out on the ground. I am thinking that maybe it can to within a reasonable precision (reasonable enough to get a bus through). My first reaction is the same holy decree above "hey, you can't do that". But could you perhaps reference the original "deed" or whatever document created the easement, and add some language that implies your metes-and-bounds interpretation of the original. That might appease some of the complainers.
Where do they want the m&b description, anyway? on your map? Wherever you put it I would make sure and (1) call to the original document, and (2) include some kind of statement that your description is only for informational purposes or only your interpretation of the original (possibly even say that it had to be scaled off a map). You might also imply an estimate of uncertainty. It is only as precise as how well you can scale it. You might make the bearings to how accurately you can measure them with a protractor (half a degree?) and the distances only to the nearest foot or 10 feet depending on the scale of the drawing and to what precision you can read the distances on a scale.
Just some thoughts.
Tom.
My thinking is to show the easement graphically, if you can, and only dimension what you can without assumptions. I have no problem putting notes such as, "Not Plottable, Documents provided by client are illegible" or "Not enough information in provided documents to accurately plot said easement"
We NEVER change descriptions either. If a M&B doesn't exist, my opinion is both parties would have to vacate the original, then create a new one. Of course, that will be shown on your ALTA update for and additional fee.
