I ran and did a quicky easement this morning for a new burger joint in a "satellite" parcel to a large chain store. It looked like a probable "easy-in and easy-out".
The site is a mess full of contractors and the floor for the building is poured. Paving stakes are all over the place and the facility engineer for my client has been out there and staked the buried primary and transformer locations. All I need to do is kick up some control, shoot the stakes and flags and get back here to draw it up.
I had a little bit of a hiccup finding the pins however. Finally figured out what was going on and it appeared to me that everything was staked 30' to the east There is a 30' R/W on the east side of the property. This property's east line is the west side of that 30' R/W. That pin had never been dug up until I found it today although the east side of the 30' R/W has a lath marked "prop. cor.". To make sure I knew what I was talking about I spent the time to dance out into a 5 lane arterial road (posted speed 55 mph) and dig up the section and quarter corner. Yup, what I think fits. From the plot plan I have it looks like the surveyor (I have no idea whom) that laid out the construction stakes started from the wrong side of the 30' R/W....and there's a finished foundation surrounded by curb forms. It looks like maybe a day or two and they will be ready to pour the parking.
I went into the job shack and talked with the super. It would be redundant for me to say he's young because everybody is younger than me. Suprisingly this kid gave me the brush off and wasn't listening to a thing I told him. All he said (without even looking up from his phone) was "Thanks for stopping in..when can we expect to get the transformers set?"
I told him he'd have to call the utility engineer...I'm just the surveyor. 😉
I tried to tell him things were not what was on the plans. The plans on his table were the same as mine. This definitely won't go unnoticed. Oh well, I got my part done. We'll see how well he's handled his end.
I've seen some things.............
But that one seems like it's impossible, wouldn't someone visually notice there was an issue?
I bet all the underground is 30' off too, not easy to fix.
Ooooooooooooooooooh, boy! Somebody's gonna eat a lot of dough on this job!
MightyMoe, post: 423384, member: 700 wrote: I've seen some things.............
But that one seems like it's impossible, wouldn't someone visually notice there was an issue?
It's out in the middle of nothing except section line frontage. There are three lots that separate a Lowe's store parking area from the section line. This is the middle lot. Basically this project's plans shows the 30' R/W as being a cross access drive to the east of the site. They are paving over that 30' R/W with their parking...the access shows as "future" on the site plans...but definitely east of the east property line, NOT a part of the property.
Took me a few minutes to figure out what was going on. I won't be the only one that eventually realizes what has happened. To maintain that 30' R.W the vacant lot to the east might have to eat it.
Any chance you can prod them by saying you need to trench through the building to install the transformer which will land in the front hallway?
paden cash, post: 423380, member: 20 wrote: I ran and did a quicky easement this morning for a new burger joint in a "satellite" parcel to a large chain store. It looked like a probable "easy-in and easy-out".
The site is a mess full of contractors and the floor for the building is poured. Paving stakes are all over the place and the facility engineer for my client has been out there and staked the buried primary and transformer locations. All I need to do is kick up some control, shoot the stakes and flags and get back here to draw it up.
I had a little bit of a hiccup finding the pins however. Finally figured out what was going on and it appeared to me that everything was staked 30' to the east There is a 30' R/W on the east side of the property. This property's east line is the west side of that 30' R/W. That pin had never been dug up until I found it today although the east side of the 30' R/W has a lath marked "prop. cor.". To make sure I knew what I was talking about I spent the time to dance out into a 5 lane arterial road (posted speed 55 mph) and dig up the section and quarter corner. Yup, what I think fits. From the plot plan I have it looks like the surveyor (I have no idea whom) that laid out the construction stakes started from the wrong side of the 30' R/W....and there's a finished foundation surrounded by curb forms. It looks like maybe a day or two and they will be ready to pour the parking.
I went into the job shack and talked with the super. It would be redundant for me to say he's young because everybody is younger than me. Suprisingly this kid gave me the brush off and wasn't listening to a thing I told him. All he said (without even looking up from his phone) was "Thanks for stopping in..when can we expect to get the transformers set?"
I told him he'd have to call the utility engineer...I'm just the surveyor. 😉
I tried to tell him things were not what was on the plans. The plans on his table were the same as mine. This definitely won't go unnoticed. Oh well, I got my part done. We'll see how well he's handled his end.
And here you become the Messenger again. Don't shoot the messenger!
MightyMoe, post: 423384, member: 700 wrote: I've seen some things.............
But that one seems like it's impossible, wouldn't someone visually notice there was an issue?
If you know surveying in Oklahoma you know that this isn't impossible. Keep us posted, Paden.
Just sneak out there in the middle of the night and slice 30' off the west side of the section and paste it onto the east side before anyone notices.
Market it as a value-added service.
paden cash, post: 423380, member: 20 wrote: I ran and did a quicky easement this morning for a new burger joint in a "satellite" parcel to a large chain store. It looked like a probable "easy-in and easy-out".
[...]
I tried to tell him things were not what was on the plans. The plans on his table were the same as mine. This definitely won't go unnoticed. Oh well, I got my part done. We'll see how well he's handled his end.
I would think it's obvious that what the superintendant needs to do is hire one of the truly expert surveying firms that OK has in seeming abundance (and who, for mysterious reasons, may do more work in Texas than on their native soil North of the Red).
Who are these mythical creatures, you ask? Well, one need look no further than the interwebs using "ALTA Survey", "customer -oriented", and "timely and efficient". Those folks should be able to find the PK Nail section corner that you overlooked and repair the possible damage faster than you can say "cash me out!"
Kent McMillan, post: 423400, member: 3 wrote: I would think it's obvious that what the superintendant needs to do is hire one of the truly expert surveying firms that OK has in seeming abundance (and who, for mysterious reasons, may do more work in Texas than on their native soil North of the Red).
Who are these mythical creatures, you ask? Well, one need look no further than the interwebs using "ALTA Survey", "customer -oriented", and "timely and efficient". Those folks should be able to find the PK Nail section corner that you overlooked and repair the possible damage faster than you can say "cash me out!"
By now I'm oblivious to your apparent jealousy-turned-to-ire that stems from the fact you're not an Okie. But I would like to point out there are just as many (if not more) Texas based firms that peddle their 24 x 36 snake oil up here as there are Okie firms down there. With all the wind farm and pipeline work up here there have been some Texas-surveyors-licensed-as-Okies grilled by the board up here over their inabilities to meet our rigid minimum standards. Quite an embarrassment I would think for all surveyors occupying the rarified heights of Texas licensure...;)
Seriously I was looking at the prints of this place this evening. Although I'm only equipped with a print reduced to letter size, it appears as if there is a topo superimposed beneath the plot plan. And even though at the time of the topo there was little physical relief save a pole line and curb, the pole from which my client's primary goes buried looks as if it may be shifted as well. It definitely doesn't sit where I shot it today. A good clue would have been a sanitary sewer MH that shows on the topo to be 39' from a property corner. I looked for a pin (and found one in it's proper position with the section line) at that location and the MH was more like 9' from the corner. I remember this simply because it gave my pinfinder fits. I wish now I had shot that MH.
There's a good chance the original topo may have been in error. Or the design firm misread the survey maybe. If the same surveyor that performed the original topo also performed the layout he (or she) has a lot of 'splaining' to do. I'm definitely not going to lose any sleep over it. My easement is described in its proper place and will in all likelihood be of record in a day or two. The "shift" is somebody else's worry. I brought it to the attention of the contractor's representative. I don't feel the need go any further than that.
Probably also contact the original topo surveyor?
paden cash, post: 423412, member: 20 wrote: [...] I would like to point out there are just as many (if not more) Texas based firms that peddle their 24 x 36 snake oil up here as there are Okie firms down there. With all the wind farm and pipeline work up here there have been some Texas-surveyors-licensed-as-Okies grilled by the board up here over their inabilities to meet our rigid minimum standards. Quite an embarrassment I would think for all surveyors occupying the rarified heights of Texas licensure...
I would imagine that those are Texas SIT trainees who are getting their Okie licenses as a sort of "Learner's Permit" on the theory that there isn't anything they can mess up too badly up there.
Bill93, post: 423413, member: 87 wrote: Probably also contact the original topo surveyor?
I was thinking the same. Contact/notify the previous Surveyor(s) responsible for the boundary and/or topo and stakeout mess.
I don't think it would be difficult to present them with the facts.
Surely they can be found unless OK Surveyors go around like the Lone Ranger or something like that. Who was that masked surveyman?
Just presenting it to the site supervisor and posting it on a survey forum seems to a degree of professional responsibility.
Bemoaning about ageism doesn't help at all.
Ready for type lashing here.
surveys and building permits here use procedures that would prevent this from happening. Some Surveyors even incorporate extra time on concrete form checking as a qc.
After all this is when stuff happens.
That being said, I still can see where somebody could have easily goofed up
there in OK.
Lack of QC checks from the get go.
I hope that they don't contract on government work.
Oh, the arrogance of youth!
I was an expert witness a few years ago that involved a similar situation. The plans for the shopping center showed dimensions along the front R/W line EXCEPT the closing distance at the easterly end. No dimension. The construction surveyor added up all the dimensions, subtracted that total from the record dimension for the property, and then proceeded to lay out the entire project from the easterly end. Problems ensued!
Ruel del Castillo, post: 423450, member: 137 wrote: Oh, the arrogance of youth!
I was an expert witness a few years ago that involved a similar situation. The plans for the shopping center showed dimensions along the front R/W line EXCEPT the closing distance at the easterly end. No dimension. The construction surveyor added up all the dimensions, subtracted that total from the record dimension for the property, and then proceeded to lay out the entire project from the easterly end. Problems ensued!
Years ago I purchased some curb and gutter from a new church site due to very similar circumstances. Lesson learned.
And just for the record I don't hold any disregard for the super on the site because of his youth. His indifference (or possibly arrogance) is a different story.
Some years ago I started with a new employer as a crew chief. One of the in progress projects they handed me was a shopping center that sounds similar to the OP project. First week on the job staking curbing around one of the fast food buildings under construction. Came back a few days later and saw the asphalt crew unloading equipment to pave the lot. Told the I-man the site superintendent was creating a problem I needed to point out. I-man advised super was touchy about anyone questioning things and I would get run off the site.
Went to the supers office and asked if he had a minute. Then asked "Do you know about how tall the guy is that is passing lumber up over his head through the window over there?" His answer "He is about six feet, what does that have to do with anything?" My reply "Just wondered if you realized that is the drive through window?"
We quickly checked the site plans and curb stakes. Then the super made arrangements with the paving company to haul several loads of stone and build a ramp across the back of the building and around the side to the window. I had no more problems on that site and caught several more minor headaches before they developed.
Some years ago I was hired to stake the center of a tower on a new site where the design surveyor set the lease corners during the course of his survey.
Upon my arrival I could tell something didn't seem quite right about the location of the lease in regards to where it was situated on the ground. Although it matched the plans something appeared off. I informed the superintendent that I thought the site was not correct, and I thought some additional boundary work was needed to ensure proper placement of the lease, which thought overlapped a undeveloped city alley. He grumbled and said the original lease corners are in I just need you to put the tower where it belongs in the lease. I said surething and documented the conversation.
About three weeks go by and I get a call from him saying he needed me to verify the location of the tower, " now built" because the city is concerned it IS in the alley.
I gladly took to performing my research and boundary work and confirmed that the original design surveyor missed the alley in is research, I don't know how, maybe because they were out of state. And infact the new tower was smack dab in the middle of the alley.
Now instead of just paying my fee to verify everything in the beginning, they had to pay for my asbuilt and removal of the tower and reconstruction 20' away.
Ron Lang, post: 423553, member: 6445 wrote: Some years ago I was hired to stake the center of a tower on a new site where the design surveyor set the lease corners during the course of his survey.
Upon my arrival I could tell something didn't seem quite right about the location of the lease in regards to where it was situated on the ground. Although it matched the plans something appeared off. I informed the superintendent that I thought the site was not correct, and I thought some additional boundary work was needed to ensure proper placement of the lease, which thought overlapped a undeveloped city alley. He grumbled and said the original lease corners are in I just need you to put the tower where it belongs in the lease. I said surething and documented the conversation.
About three weeks go by and I get a call from him saying he needed me to verify the location of the tower, " now built" because the city is concerned it IS in the alley.
I gladly took to performing my research and boundary work and confirmed that the original design surveyor missed the alley in is research, I don't know how, maybe because they were out of state. And infact the new tower was smack dab in the middle of the alley.
Now instead of just paying my fee to verify everything in the beginning, they had to pay for my asbuilt and removal of the tower and reconstruction 20' away.
The cost of which was ultimately payed by the design engineers insurance company who sued the design surveyor.
Btw, since then the design engineer has used me exclusively with his VA projects and we have developed quite a good relationship.
