1/4 corner

Yup, that's it

I've been looking for that missing half mile for years. Didn't realize it was way over in your neck of the woods. Thanks for solving the mystery.

I have a spare mile I found here in CA you can have. The land is worth a little bit more, but I'll just give it to you anyway.

1/4 Section corner cap in the hills above Malibu, CA for east 1/4 of Section 11 was actually stamped as the east 1/4 of Section 12.

So is there 1 notch on the North face? One notch over four notches = 1/4

That would be a new one for me too.

I've never seen a notch or an original GLO corner monument in 40 yrs of surveying. That must be why I bend lines. There is nothing certain enough not to.

terrible picture but

this is the south side of the stone:

Of course 4 notches would place it at the NE corner of Section 18: it was nicely aligned parallel with the north-south line and has been used for many years. So since it isn't "properly marked" I decided to set a 3" aluminum cap and bury the stone alongside.

It is one of those "set in mound" stones, with pits; no evidence of the mound or pits remain. No trees in the area so no line trees or BT's.

That is just sad:-(

You should come out to the big country, lots of them still around:-)

terrible picture but

We have all had embarrassing Scrivener's errors. Don't think any of mine are in stone?

terrible picture but

Those I'd call grooves. Notches I refer to as on the corner and grooves more on the face. It wasn't until a couple years ago that I found a stone with both grooves on a face and notches on a edge.

1/4 marks can vary a lot. Open 4, closed 4, some have the 1 and some don't. The ones hard to see are not cut in but just etched. You have to wash the stone and get the right lighting to see some of these. Others the etching shows right out as the coloring changes.

What I've never found is an original post. I've also never found any charcoal or glass, not even with original stones.

Here is the quarter corner I found yesterday.

From the opposite side with the 1/4 highlighted with my handy white marker.

Not much for a mound around it but there are a couple rocks buried not visible in the photos. If it checks good to both found section corners I will likely accept it even though it is not actually "set" in the ground but just lying there like any other rock might be.

terrible picture but

You could call them grooves, but I go with what the original surveyor called them, and he called them notches, of course he didn't call out notches for this corner.

In fact, he didn't say anything about marking the stones in this township. No mention of how he did it at each stone, but in other nearby townships he refers to these types of grooves as notches.

And you didn't shadow your photo, smart!!!:-)

Nice stone

terrible picture but

I have that a lot also, usually give a size for the stone but no mention of how they marked it. So you just go with how it was supposed to be marked and it can vary a lot. I don't think you can get enough experience. I've been back many years later and recognized marks that I didn't see the first time around. I'm sure I've missed some corners in the past.

I've also found stones I believe were set later and marked by others. County surveyor, landowner, private surveyor (no record to look at). I've also found a few quarter stones marked on both sides, original style on one side and a big deeply cut in 4 on the other. I suppose someone wanted to make it more sure that the next guy would see it.

I also have seen and heard of cases where a stone couldn't be found so one was (probably) manufactured. There is one big mess in my county where 4 marked stones have been reported at a corner (marked stone pincushion). There is a township corner in my county where it was resurveyed in the 30's and the GLO reported talking with the landowners and county surveyor and set a stone in road intersection with a + cut in the top. So I go there and off to the SE corner of the intersection is a big ole marked stone in a mound probably set later by someone without looking at the notes. I refer to the bottom of our valley as the Abyss. The deeds (descriptions) in the recorders office are some fantasy beyond the abyss.

The monument builders often placed the 1/4 marks or the notches on the stones at the end of the day or beginning of the day and piled the stones in the wagon. I have found the section corner with the notches placed at the 1/4 corner location to the south. They just goofed up and didn't go back and change it.

There is a story that goes like this:

On a reservation a surveyor was looking for a 1/4 corner and having no luck, a tribal member told him that he knew where it was and would he like to see it? The surveyor said yes please and the man took him towards a stream, as they were going the surveyor was thinking where is he taking me this is far from where I want to be. The man stopped near the stream at what looked like a well used camp site and pointed at a large pile of stones, sure enough the surveyor walks over to it and there is a stone with a 1/4 marked on it, in fact all the stones either had a 1/4 or notches. It was where the survey crew camped and marked stones at night, only they never set them............

With your permission I am keeping a copy of this shot for a collection of open 4 pictures inspired by the following passage in Evidence and Procedures for Boundary Location, 6th ed., p. 319: “The corner was marked with a chiseled ¼, but the evidentiary question was the 4. The mark was an open four, and an expert testified that the original government surveyors never made open 4s on their monuments.”

Examination of the cited case (Pointner v. Johnson, 695 P.2d 399 (Id. 1985) led to an e-mail exchange with author. He replied that the testimony wasn't recorded, and agreed with the correction Pointer --> Pointner (in case you consult the book).

Recorded or not, it strikes me as an amazing thing to say, let alone believe.

Cheers,
Henry

Sure, If you want the original photos email me. vern at rmmaterials.com

Open "4"

That does seem to be an irresponsible thing to say. Around here, I don't think I've ever seen a "closed" four. I'm no expert for sure, but I have had the honor of seeing a dozen or so over the years.

Our original surveys date from 1871 through 1877 or so where setting stones was common. Most later (1898 and up) surveys set iron posts with lead tablets fixed on the top. I'm sure I've got some pics on an old backup somewhere.

Most of the early 1/4 corner stones are marked thus:

with open fours. A real no brainer if you've ever used a chisel or a scribe to scratch in limestone or sandstone.

Open "4"

I've seen a LOT of "open" 4(s) over the years, I don't know what that "expert" was talking about (and neither did he IMO).

Loyal