Beerleggers - I am currently running Rel. 2004 with LDD, but I am looking to upgrade to Civil 3D and I would appreciate any advice regarding the benefits, drawbacks and bugs of C3D 2013. - Thanx - Matt
Recommend latest powerful pc available (I use a dell t35000 /dual monitors, 64 bit architecture, 8 or more gig ram 12 preferred and depending on the amount of users use Vault. If you want a little upfront training I recommend Microdesk and find their support very good. good luck and have fun.........oh and patience ... IMHO
I'd go with Carlson w/embedded AutoCAD and avoid all the headaches. Carlson Survey w/embedded AutoCAD is an awesome tool and is not all that difficult to use. The learning curve is MUCH easier than going to Civil 3D.
Check the Carlson website and see if Carlson Survey has all of the tools that you need. If not, check out their Civil package. Either way you are looking at saving a boat load of money on the software costs.
My firm is a purely surveying company. We do work for local designers, engineers, the state Highway Department and the Corps of Engineers. So far we have not been given a task that Carlson Survey could not do. We have hit no compatabilty issues using Carlson Survey w/embedded AutoCAD and all of the clients have been more than satisfied with the results.
It's your money. Spend it where you will, but why pay for features that you will not use?
I agree, if he feels that he must upgrade. I'd probably stay with what he has already, unless there's some compelling reason to upgrade.
Carlson is definitely the way to go - cost and ease of use. And the XML files make dealing with LDD/C3D users a non-issue.
> I'd go with Carlson w/embedded AutoCAD and avoid all the headaches....
I used LDT through the 2009 version, have had some exposure to C3d 2012, and am now using Carlson 2013 w/embedded AutoCAD. I agree that Carlson 2013 w/embedded AutoCAD is great value for the money, but I'm not certain I go to it from LDT instead of going to C3d.
It depends on what kind of user you are. With the Carlson/Embedded you give up most of the customizability, for example. No more LISP. You give up the "AutoCAD Map" functions. Carlson has replaced some of those functions with analogous functions of their own - similar, but not quite the same.
So if you are a power user, and you are really happy with LDT, and are not concerned about the price, stay with C3d.
I'm finding some buggy behaviour in Carlson 2013. The DDUNITS precision setting keeps resetting itself to zero, for example. I have to keep reattaching the coordinate file, for another.
> I'd go with Carlson w/embedded AutoCAD and avoid all the headaches.
Ditto here.
Run far and fast from C3D.
I just spent the past 7 months struggling miserably with c3d.
I am so glad to be back home with my wonderful Carlson.
Brad
benefits: hmmm, well, you can tell people you have it...
drawbacks: steepest learning curve of ANYTHING I've seen in 40 years
not surveyor friendly at all
extremely aggravating
you will spend hours and hours getting things set up to produce the results
you want - sometimes you can't get the results you want.
CAUTION! CAUTION!! CAUTION!!
I started with AutoCAD 2.15 in 1985, so I have a bit of experience. Have been struggling with 2012 for 18 months - have cost my employer thousands of dollars.
Carlson is definitely the most-similar to LDD, with the easiest upgrade path. But we find C3D to be much more powerful in a number of areas, with far better control over a number of elements. There's definitely a learning curve, and it takes a fair bit of time to get your template setup, but once you do, things go pretty fast, and you can do a lot. Carlson is superior to C3D in some areas, but overall, we find C3D to be a better value, especially compared to Carlson+IntelliCAD. If you run Carlson on AutoCAD, the price difference isn't much different than C3D, but the value is. The big differences are "What do you do?" and "Will you pay for training?". Trying to learn C3D from the help files can waste a lot of time, but proper training will get you past that. AU is very helpful, since it also gives you access to all the recorded sessions, and you can learn all kinds of useful tips from expert users, leading to a huge increase in productivity. But Carlson has some other benefits for some uses, such as it's much better for mining applications. It all depends on the user.
The big annoying thing with C3D is the bugs, which change each year, because of Autodesk's constant yearly releases. It takes time to sort those out, from year to year. But once you figure them out, you can typically work around them. The forums help with that, since often someone else has already figured out a workaround, although it can still be something of PITA. The other annoying thing is that C3D is not backward-compatible, so you can't share files with people running an older version without destroying all your C3D entities. LandXML can help, but only partially, since it doesn't include everything.
> Beerleggers - I am currently running Rel. 2004 with LDD, but I am looking to upgrade to Civil 3D and I would appreciate any advice regarding the benefits, drawbacks and bugs of C3D 2013. - Thanx - Matt
Being a user of Autocad since 1985 I can easily say that the upgrade from LDD to C3D is like nothing you have ever seen or could readily comprehend. Everything has changed and you will not like it until you understand it (even then you may not like it, but we do).
The learning curve is over the top, it's almost like starting all over again when compared to how LDD functioned. If you can afford official training I would jump on it. If not, I would read as much as you can and ask questions. The Autodesk Discussion forum is a great resource.
I don't have time to get into all the details about the pros and cons but I can unequivocally state that we easily do twice if not three times the work with Civil3d when compared to LDD. The surface editing and creating features are second to none and when you pair your civil3d with Sincpac it's really quite astonishing how many calcs you can get done in a very short time frame.
Oh, and we also use the Sincpac-C3D in Civil 3D, which provides a lot of tools that are Surveyor-friendly, including many that are not available in Carlson. That really speeds up a lot of our tasks, and makes them much simpler than plain C3D.
(Disclaimer: I created the Sincpac-C3D, if that wasn't obvious from my name.)
One of the great things about C3D is that it's becoming a platform like the Iphone or Droid, with an app store, that lets you extend it however you need. We plan to have the Sincpac-C3D in the C3D app store in the near future. As of now, it's only available through our website at Quux Software.
To reach a comfortable cruising pace, you will need to allocate resources: time and money.
Are you sure that it is the right software for your needs? Or are you getting it to keep up with the Jones? The boat that you are driving at full throttle in clear open waters right now will enter a thick mud for a while, a good while.
Be aware that, if I understand correctly, there are incompatibility issues between subsequent versions of the software from a year to the next. If your idea is to purchase C3D 2013 and stick with it for a few years*, while hoping to collaborate/share data (to its full C3D strength, not export to AutoCAD) with other C3D users in upcoming years, this could be a problem if you do not upgrade/pay on a yearly basis.
*In your case, you are still running 2004, which is fine. This indicates that you may not be in the culture of upgrading year after year. The software that you are contemplating does not have this mindset.
A lot of stuff on the market, take your time to make your choice.
Switching to Carlson, I only "lost" LISP ability. I had 8 lisp routines that I used on a daily basis, 7 of them are in Carlson Survey and the one I lost was no big deal. Daily operations are VERY similar to the way I did stuff in LDD.
MAP functions? I did not use that many in LDD so I don't have that problem. The GIS pull down gives me what I need.
Overall, much easier to use and MUCH less expensive. As I stated before, for the small business survey shop, why pay 2x+ for software that is cumbersome and contains features that you will never use?? The budget and the ability to do what you need is the VERY BOTTOM LINE.
Here's an idea, go to the carlson website, click on the support tab, go to the link to the movies. Watch a couple of the training movies on subjects you use. That should give you a feel for the software.
> ... why pay 2x+ for software that is cumbersome and contains features that you will never use ...
If you will never use it there is no reason. But that is you. It may or may not be and may not be Matt Lewandowski.
> The budget and the ability to do what you need is the VERY BOTTOM LINE.
Lowest price isn't everything, is it? C3d also has it's strengths. Matt has evidently been getting along with LDT and has probably developed systems that rely on it's strengths and compensate for it's deficiencies.
Let's just answer Matt's question without trying to impose our own preferences and beliefs on him.
A Big Thanx to all who provided advice, guidance and opinions. You have all given me a lot to chew on. - Matt
this> " The big differences are "What do you do?" and "Will you pay for training?". Trying to learn C3D from the help files can waste a lot of time, but proper training will get you past that. AU is very helpful, since it also gives you access to all the recorded sessions, and you can learn all kinds of useful tips from expert users, leading to a huge increase in productivity. "
Full disclosure....we are an AutoDesk Reseller....
Even experienced Power Users of LDT struggle with C3D.
Pay for some training....Pay to have your templates set up by people that know what they are doing..
Avoid the pounding your head on your desk....
I agree - it does matter what you do.
If you're a typical surveyor, doing boundaries, topos, construction, etc., and rarely do gas pipeline surveys or those requiring attributes, or anything complicated - then Carlson will do it for you.
Sure there'll be a few commands that you won't be able to use, and some where you'll have to get there a different way. The survey routines are better, and the cost is substantially less.
If you're a professional drafter, then maybe you'll miss some routines, and it'll slow you down somewhat. If your company doesn't mind paying extra for C3D, go for it. I'm with Carlson, either way.
I'm not affiliated with Sincpac. I'm just a very pleased user. If you're using C3D without Sncpac, you're at a real disadvantage.
The learning curve IS huge, but trainning will make it shorter.
When you first started using AutoCAD, did you get trainning or were you able to use it effectively straight out of the box?
C3D I'd a huge sea change and does require trainning.
My 2¢ worth.
