Carlson Contouring - CS2011

FLS

The first thing I do is make sure all of my breaklines are 3D polylines and they snap to the nodes. Freeze any points that are not on the surface such as a reflectorless shot on a building wall. Make sure the points left on have a actual elevation assigned and you don't have any points with 0.00 for a elevation.

It took me a little of trial and error and I'm picking up more experience every time I run a surface.

On the fourth tab on the surface dialogue box, watch what you have selected for the program to use for creating the surface. I usually run a TIN with just the points on first and see what it looks line. After that I add in the breaklines and rerun it.

I'm old school in that when I'm shooting in the field, I make sure my road points are in a cross-section pattern and if the shots are of a field, that the shots are in a grid. The grid doesn't have to be perfect, but I like to help the computer out when I can. I also walk the breaks (TOS, BOS etc) and if the distance is pretty large between the two, I'll add in some points in between to make the surface more accurate. I use a robot and GPS when possible.

I'm getting into machine control more now so the surface has to be perfect. The hard part I'm running into is getting a plan from a engineer who has his contours at 0.00 elevation and doesn't provide any spot grades.

Send me a email if you have any other questions.

Bob

Your post tells me that you are not using 3D break lines. That is a must. You need a 3d poly for all of your edge of concrete, edge of asphalt, road centerlines, tops, toes, etc. The easiest way to get the breaklines is to set your Field To Finish setup to draw both a 2D and 3D poly for those features.
When selecting items for the surface to use, go into overkill mode. I create a new .CRD file for my topo and copy all of the orifinal shots into that. Then I delete all of the shots on signs, trees, poles, guy wires, electric boxes, etc. Then I build my surface with the 3D polys (after I do a 3d offset fort the curb lines), I insert all of the points on the actual z axis PLUS I tell the program to use the coordinate file. I first "shrink wrap " all of the shots and then edit that poly to best fit the actual shots. I then pick the inclusion are, the exclusion area (if any) and select all of the data on the screen with a window selection. The resulting surface and contours should work just fine. No matter what you do, you will need to edit the surface to get everything the way you want it.
MUCH of the success of building a surface depends on how well things are defined in the field by the shots taken. Your field work can make or break you. If you shoot a retaining wall and your next shot is 10 feet away, you are messed up. Particular care must be taken with your shots on retaining walls, docks, piers, soundings and buildings. It's best to have a shot at every building corner. Remember, you do not contour porches, so you will need ground shots at the base of the porch. Contours up the steps and across the porch are actually meaningless.
Be sure to check the training films on the Carlson Web site to see if they help any. Most of them are VERY basic, but they may point you in the right direction. Also, see if there is another Carlson user in your area that may be willing to help you figure this all out.
In your area you are lucky to have several Carlson College members close by. See what a one day training class on surfaces and contours will run. I promise you that it will be some of the best money you have ever spent.

I'd like to add this to Bob's excellent advice: If there is a steep slope, instead of taking a bunch of extra shots at random, I'll watch the GPS display and take the extra shots near the foot elevation line, so I have a shot at 2384.97 and 2386.02, etc. I often run a preliminary contour map and if the results are iffy then I go back and trace the contour line in the field. It helps to have all of the programs in the laptop in the field so I can see what has to be done.

I may have not given enough info. I've been contouring with Carlson for many years now and in my opinion it has never been that great. But my 2011 really needes a lot of editing to get what I feel is the most accurate contouring. Years ago I used C&G and it worked very well. I do use breaklines and for all my ground breaks, curbing, and other road and ground features.

I'm by now means a high volume topo guy and love to hear what the other surveyors due for the tricks of the trade, but this new program is a lot of work to get it right. I'm trying different options one at a time to see what it does, but it still seems to start with the worst contouring in some areas and you have to edit them into place.

My question was maybe geered more towards the newer Carlson stuff, but the other info is very interesting so keep it coming.

thanks

Forrest

FLS,

I guess I should have qualified the software I'm using and have used. I am using Carlson 2011, Land Desktop and Trimble Business Center-Heavy Highway for surface modeling and contours.

I have used Terramodel and a real old program called Maptech back in the 80's. What kind of issues is the newer version giving you?

Bob

Just that its seem like I do more editing than I had to before with 2007 (not that that was that great either).
My contours zig and zag up the triangles instead of a smooth contour through the area. But, after a few triangle edge swaps they look right. I feel as though they should have been drawn right the first time, it wasn't a tough area and I had plenty of shots. My curbing where I take quite a few shots for example, my top and bottoms are opposite each other and thne I shoot other close shots to use, the program draws countour flat loops instead of one big long contour along the curbing. Areas of uniform lawn where I take a lot of shots the countous sometimes are more ragged and not long and smooth.

I can only edit the tin so much and then I have to break away from it and drawn 3d poly to correct the contours. Then my tin doesn't match my contours.

I'm pretty sure my field work is solid after 25 years of surveying, but my office contouring programs are not getting better. I may try and countour in C & G I used to think that was the better then Carlson, but did not want to switch back and forth then.

I pretty sure I've treid all the options they have and it still generally contours they same. I like my Carlson been with them since 1998, not bashing just want to get it worked out the best I can.

Check back in the morning.

thanks

I know you are collecting break lines, but are you sure the program is applying the break lines?

I agree with Bruce. Are your breaklines applied properly?

If data in and breaklines are adequate, there shouldn't be a lot of editing (next to none actually) to do when creating tin/contours, regardless of the software used. It sounds like you are spending a lot of time on this task. If you wish, do not hesitate to send me you data/drawing, I can have a look at it, have another set of eyes looking at it type of thing.

Good luck

Might be a tiny bug in the C2011 program.

I am a brand new user this year. I have just started using it for F2F & contouring etc.

I really like it.

I sent about a dozen or more e-mails to tech support the other day on my first real contouring topo drawing. As always they were very helpful & quick to respond!

I did not mention it to Carlson specifically, but I did notice that many of the apparently silly little troubling qwerks that were difficult to explain (like the ones you are describing above) actually "went away" after I exited the program & re-entered it.

Kind of like a super regen command.

By "went away" I mean, the program actually did what I was expecting it to after exiting & re-entering the program. It would not repeat its misbehavior after I sent it to the corner for a time out.

😉

Seriously I hope it is something as simple as this or similar.

Worst case, maybe reboot & walk around your desk three times, I know my old IT guy at my former job had me doing that all the time. It seemed to work well, or at least it seemed to put a smile on his face (although I am not exactly sure why).

Brad

I'm finding the CS2011 with AutoCAD definetly loses programs functions and has to be reboted quite a bit.

I will contact them about that soon.

Thanks

Brad

It may turn out to be an AutoCAD issue. I run LDD2000 and I've seen similar behavior. I learned long ago that if something is acting a little strange, close and restart the program, if its acting downright weird, reboot the entire computer.

Another setting to look at: "Simplify Surface". Turn it off. On large projects it does more harm than good.