Guys here is the rerun of traverse. Didnt adjust traverse. Finally closed out at about 930 pm and the mofo still didnt close. I even doubled angles on the iffy ones.. Im convinced this robot needs a calibration or settings need to be changed or something. I have never in my life had a job haunt me like this one is. So running for a 3rd time if A- robot gets calibrated. B- renting manual instrument. C- Pay their guys to run the damn thing. How embarrassing. Could someone see if anything jumps out at them as far as a setup is concerned? Or cumulative error? At the end you will see where i hopped into manual mode and that was to put in the closing angle from the first traverse to see if my 0.8 got any better on the closing angle back to 483 and it didnt. I did this bc it was already pitch black at 915 in the middle of someones field but i had to setup and do it anyway bc it didnt help. Thanks
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ps- point numbers are the same as first run in earlier part of thread. Field sketch is attached here with raw file
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JB,NMMILLER2_RERUN,DT02-19-2011,TM14:26:58
MO,AD0,UN2,SF1.000000000,EC0,EO0.0,AU0
--.Survey to .Raw conversion version:6.3.1.0
--Created by version 6.3.1.10, Ranger3 (ES6KD07466).
SP,PN400,N 5000.000000,E -10000.000000,EL0.000,--PT 169
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Generic Prism: "My Prism", Prism Const.:0.0mm
--Activating Total Station: Spectra Precision FOCUS 30/35, Direct Connect,9600,None
OC,OP400,N 5000.000000,E -10000.000000,EL,--PT 169
BK,OP400,BP0,BS200.000000,BC0.0000
LS,HI0.000,HR0.000
SS,OP400,FP401,AR359.595028,ZE88.390486,SD525.402919,--PT 138
--raw= HR:0.0 HA:0.000972 SD:525.406922 ZA:88.391134
--Check By Distance: HA:0.000972 ZE:88.391134 SD:525.407
OC,OP400,N 5000.000000,E -10000.000000,EL,--PT 169
BK,OP400,BP401,BS199.595028,BC0.0000
LS,HI0.000,HR0.000
--BS check 400 - 401:ZE88.391134,SD525.406922,HD err= 0.00439
--BS Circle check : angular err= 0.000972
OB,OP400,FP401,AR0.000972,ZE88.391134,SD525.406922,--PT 138
--Check Point: Date: 2/19/11, Time: 14:28:22.000
--delta= N:-0.00434 E:0.024761 Elev:
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Trimble 360 Prism: "focus", Prism Const.:2.0mm
SS,OP400,FP404,AR86.433126,ZE94.304770,SD234.683586,--NAIL
SS,OP400,FP402,AR83.210126,ZE90.145281,SD37.420210,--EIP
OF,AR0.404782,ZE88.373999,SD297.904379
OF,LR-0.200000,--Left / Right Offset
SS,OP400,FP403,AR0.382930,ZE88.373999,SD297.904379,--EIP
--raw= HR:0.0 HA:0.000162 SD:234.728632 ZA:85.202652
--Check By Distance: HA:0.000162 ZE:85.202652 SD:234.729
TR,OP400,FP404,AR86.433126,ZE94.304770,SD234.683586,--NAIL
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Generic Prism: "My Prism", Prism Const.:0.0mm
OC,OP404,N 5067.318261,E -10224.061601,EL,--NAIL
BK,OP404,BP400,BS106.432154,BC0.0000
LS,HI0.000,HR0.000
--BS check 404 - 400:ZE85.202652,SD234.728632,HD err= -0.002937
--BS Circle check : angular err= 0.000162
OB,OP404,FP400,AR0.000162,ZE85.202652,SD234.728632,--PT 169
--Check Point: Date: 2/19/11, Time: 14:44:26.000
--delta= N:0.000915 E:0.003341 Elev:
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Trimble 360 Prism: "focus", Prism Const.:2.0mm
SS,OP404,FP405,AR217.510630,ZE94.430513,SD266.775428,--NAIL
--Opened by version 6.3.1.10, Ranger3 (ES6KD07466).
--raw= HR:0.0 HA:0.0000 SD:266.983226 ZA:84.481548
--Check By Distance: HA:0.0000 ZE:84.481548 SD:266.983
TR,OP404,FP405,AR217.510630,ZE94.430513,SD266.775428,--NAIL
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Generic Prism: "My Prism", Prism Const.:0.0mm
OC,OP405,N 5283.968634,E -10378.172741,EL,--NAIL
BK,OP405,BP404,BS144.342784,BC0.0000
LS,HI0.000,HR0.000
--BS check 405 - 404:ZE84.481548,SD266.983226,HD err= 0.014795
--BS Circle check : angular err= 0.0000
OB,OP405,FP404,AR0.000000,ZE84.481548,SD266.983226,--NAIL
--Check Point: Date: 2/20/11, Time: 11:30:02.000
--delta= N:0.012056 E:-0.008576 Elev:
--raw= HR:0.0 HA:0.0000 SD:266.982209 ZA:84.48171
--Check By Distance: HA:0.0000 ZE:84.48171 SD:266.982
--BS check 405 - 404:ZE84.48171,SD266.982209,HD err= 0.013972
--BS Circle check : angular err= 0.0000
OB,OP405,FP404,AR0.000000,ZE84.481710,SD266.982209,--NAIL
--Check Point: Date: 2/20/11, Time: 11:30:53.000
--delta= N:0.011385 E:-0.008099 Elev:
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Trimble 360 Prism: "focus", Prism Const.:2.0mm
SS,OP405,FP432,AR204.011560,ZE89.591951,SD395.770183,--NAIL
--raw= HR:0.0 HA:0.0000 SD:395.760823 ZA:90.033708
--Check By Distance: HA:0.0000 ZE:90.033708 SD:395.761
TR,OP405,FP432,AR204.011560,ZE89.591951,SD395.770183,--NAIL
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Generic Prism: "My Prism", Prism Const.:0.0mm
OC,OP432,N 5671.924447,E -10456.430769,EL,--NAIL
BK,OP432,BP405,BS168.354344,BC0.0000
LS,HI0.000,HR0.000
--BS check 432 - 405:ZE90.033708,SD395.760823,HD err= -0.009572
--BS Circle check : angular err= 0.0000
OB,OP432,FP405,AR0.000000,ZE90.033708,SD395.760823,--NAIL
--Check Point: Date: 7/14/22, Time: 17:25:03.000
--delta= N:-0.009383 E:0.001893 Elev:
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Trimble 360 Prism: "focus", Prism Const.:2.0mm
RD,BD 1:0.000000
RD,FD 1:225.191506
RD,ZD 1:90.073522
MD,SD 1:460.682455
RF,OP432,FP434,AR225.191506,ZE90.073516,SD460.682455,HR0.000,--NAIL
RD,FV 1:45.192154
RD,ZV 1:269.521668
MD,SD 1:460.683013
RF,OP432,FP434,AR45.192154,ZE269.521674,SD460.683013,HR0.000,--NAIL
RD,BV 1:179.595676
SS,OP432,FP434,AR225.191992,ZE90.073921,SD460.682734,--NAIL
--raw= HR:0.0 HA:359.595838 SD:460.664531 ZA:89.560672
--Check By Distance: HA:359.595838 ZE:89.560672 SD:460.665
TR,OP432,FP434,AR225.191992,ZE90.073921,SD460.682734,--NAIL
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Generic Prism: "My Prism", Prism Const.:0.0mm
OC,OP434,N 6054.216883,E -10199.370420,EL,--NAIL
BK,OP434,BP432,BS213.550336,BC0.0000
LS,HI0.000,HR0.000
--BS check 434 - 432:ZE89.560672,SD460.664531,HD err= -0.017355
--BS Circle check : angular err= 0.000162
OB,OP434,FP432,AR359.595838,ZE89.560672,SD460.664531,--NAIL
--Check Point: Date: 7/14/22, Time: 17:44:44.000
--delta= N:-0.012383 E:-0.012687 Elev:
--raw= HR:0.0 HA:0.000162 SD:460.665024 ZA:89.560672
--Check By Distance: HA:0.000162 ZE:89.560672 SD:460.665
--BS check 434 - 432:ZE89.560672,SD460.665024,HD err= -0.016863
--BS Circle check : angular err= 0.000162
OB,OP434,FP432,AR0.000162,ZE89.560672,SD460.665024,--NAIL
--Check Point: Date: 7/14/22, Time: 17:45:10.000
--delta= N:-0.016013 E:-0.006407 Elev:
--raw= HR:0.0 HA:359.595838 SD:460.666008 ZA:89.560672
--Check By Distance: HA:359.595838 ZE:89.560672 SD:460.666
--BS check 434 - 432:ZE89.560672,SD460.666008,HD err= -0.015879
--BS Circle check : angular err= 0.000162
OB,OP434,FP432,AR359.595838,ZE89.560672,SD460.666008,--NAIL
--Check Point: Date: 7/14/22, Time: 17:46:08.000
--delta= N:-0.011158 E:-0.011863 Elev:
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Trimble 360 Prism: "focus", Prism Const.:2.0mm
RD,BD 1:359.595838
RD,FD 1:161.330972
RD,ZD 1:87.443894
MD,SD 1:281.407065
RF,OP434,FP442,AR161.330972,ZE87.444067,SD281.407065,HR0.000,--NAIL
RD,FV 1:341.331620
RD,ZV 1:272.150486
MD,SD 1:281.409263
RF,OP434,FP442,AR341.331620,ZE272.150314,SD281.409263,HR0.000,--NAIL
RD,BV 1:179.595838
SS,OP434,FP442,AR161.331458,ZE87.444876,SD281.408164,--NAIL
--Point renamed from: 433 to 442
--raw= HR:0.0 HA:0.0000 SD:281.402259 ZA:92.174848
--Check By Distance: HA:0.0000 ZE:92.174848 SD:281.402
TR,OP434,FP442,AR161.331458,ZE87.444876,SD281.408164,--NAIL
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Generic Prism: "My Prism", Prism Const.:0.0mm
OC,OP442,N 6325.217863,E -10124.359582,EL,--NAIL
BK,OP442,BP434,BS195.281794,BC0.0000
LS,HI0.000,HR0.000
--BS check 442 - 434:ZE92.174848,SD281.402259,HD err= -0.014416
--BS Circle check : angular err= 0.0000
OB,OP442,FP434,AR0.000000,ZE92.174848,SD281.402259,--NAIL
--Check Point: Date: 7/14/22, Time: 18:06:01.000
--delta= N:-0.013894 E:-0.003846 Elev:
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Trimble 360 Prism: "focus", Prism Const.:2.0mm
RD,BD 1:359.595676
RD,FD 1:205.202544
RD,ZD 1:88.575562
MD,SD 1:122.933052
RF,OP442,FP449,AR205.202544,ZE88.575743,SD122.933052,HR0.000,--NAIL
RD,FV 1:25.203354
RD,ZV 1:271.015142
MD,SD 1:122.934759
RF,OP442,FP449,AR25.203354,ZE271.014961,SD122.934759,HR0.000,--NAIL
RD,BV 1:180.000000
SS,OP442,FP449,AR205.203111,ZE88.580391,SD122.933906,--NAIL
--raw= HR:0.0 HA:0.0000 SD:122.919767 ZA:90.36594
--Check By Distance: HA:0.0000 ZE:90.36594 SD:122.920
TR,OP442,FP449,AR205.203111,ZE88.580391,SD122.933906,--NAIL
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Generic Prism: "My Prism", Prism Const.:0.0mm
OC,OP449,N 6418.244018,E -10044.022947,EL,--NAIL
BK,OP449,BP442,BS220.484905,BC0.0000
LS,HI0.000,HR0.000
--BS check 449 - 442:ZE90.36594,SD122.919767,HD err= -0.001303
--BS Circle check : angular err= 0.0000
OB,OP449,FP442,AR0.000000,ZE90.365940,SD122.919767,--NAIL
--Check Point: Date: 7/14/22, Time: 18:14:31.000
--delta= N:-0.000986 E:-0.000852 Elev:
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Trimble 360 Prism: "focus", Prism Const.:2.0mm
SS,OP449,FP453,AR200.232058,ZE93.203291,SD347.279958,--NAIL
--Point renamed from: 443 to 453
--raw= HR:0.0 HA:0.0000 SD:347.296714 ZA:86.372352
--Check By Distance: HA:0.0000 ZE:86.372352 SD:347.297
TR,OP449,FP453,AR200.232058,ZE93.203291,SD347.279958,--NAIL
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Generic Prism: "My Prism", Prism Const.:0.0mm
OC,OP453,N 6585.248625,E -9740.209097,EL,--NAIL
BK,OP453,BP449,BS241.120963,BC0.0000
LS,HI0.000,HR0.000
--BS check 453 - 449:ZE86.372352,SD347.296714,HD err= 0.004533
--BS Circle check : angular err= 0.0000
OB,OP453,FP449,AR0.000000,ZE86.372352,SD347.296714,--NAIL
--Check Point: Date: 7/14/22, Time: 19:03:52.000
--delta= N:0.002184 E:0.003973 Elev:
--raw= HR:0.0 HA:0.0000 SD:347.28441 ZA:86.372676
--Check By Distance: HA:0.0000 ZE:86.372676 SD:347.284
--BS check 453 - 449:ZE86.372676,SD347.28441,HD err= -0.007427
--BS Circle check : angular err= 0.0000
OB,OP453,FP449,AR0.000000,ZE86.372676,SD347.284410,--NAIL
--Check Point: Date: 7/14/22, Time: 20:13:04.000
--delta= N:-0.003578 E:-0.006509 Elev:
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Trimble 360 Prism: "focus", Prism Const.:2.0mm
SS,OP453,FP462,AR208.214374,ZE89.325102,SD132.655615,--NAIL
--raw= HR:0.0 HA:0.0000 SD:132.651277 ZA:89.560834
--Check By Distance: HA:0.0000 ZE:89.560834 SD:132.651
TR,OP453,FP462,AR208.214374,ZE89.325102,SD132.655615,--NAIL
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Generic Prism: "My Prism", Prism Const.:0.0mm
OC,OP462,N 6586.256134,E -9607.561444,EL,--NAIL
BK,OP462,BP453,BS269.335337,BC0.0000
LS,HI0.000,HR0.000
--BS check 462 - 453:ZE89.560834,SD132.651277,HD err= -0.000285
--BS Circle check : angular err= 0.0000
OB,OP462,FP453,AR0.000000,ZE89.560834,SD132.651277,--NAIL
--Check Point: Date: 7/14/22, Time: 20:55:34.000
--delta= N:-0.000002 E:-0.000285 Elev:
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Trimble 360 Prism: "focus", Prism Const.:2.0mm
SS,OP462,FP473,AR289.245490,ZE88.171678,SD420.763406,--NAIL
--raw= HR:0.0 HA:0.0000 SD:420.729769 ZA:91.29141
--Check By Distance: HA:0.0000 ZE:91.29141 SD:420.730
TR,OP462,FP473,AR289.245490,ZE88.171678,SD420.763406,--NAIL
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Generic Prism: "My Prism", Prism Const.:0.0mm
OC,OP473,N 6188.546512,E -9744.349164,EL,--NAIL
BK,OP473,BP462,BS18.584827,BC0.0000
LS,HI0.000,HR0.000
--BS check 473 - 462:ZE91.29141,SD420.729769,HD err= 0.012449
--BS Circle check : angular err= 0.0000
OB,OP473,FP462,AR0.000000,ZE91.291410,SD420.729769,--NAIL
--Check Point: Date: 7/14/22, Time: 21:05:49.000
--delta= N:-0.011772 E:-0.004049 Elev:
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Trimble 360 Prism: "focus", Prism Const.:2.0mm
SS,OP473,FP475,AR170.444794,ZE88.201468,SD621.913235,--NAIL
--raw= HR:0.0 HA:0.000162 SD:621.861617 ZA:91.29384
--Check By Distance: HA:0.000162 ZE:91.29384 SD:621.862
TR,OP473,FP475,AR170.444794,ZE88.201468,SD621.913235,--NAIL
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Generic Prism: "My Prism", Prism Const.:0.0mm
OC,OP475,N 5575.831473,E -9849.376632,EL,--NAIL
BK,OP475,BP473,BS9.433621,BC0.0000
LS,HI0.000,HR0.000
--BS check 475 - 473:ZE91.29384,SD621.861617,HD err= -0.001198
--BS Circle check : angular err= 0.000162
OB,OP475,FP473,AR0.000162,ZE91.293840,SD621.861617,--NAIL
--Check Point: Date: 7/14/22, Time: 21:28:39.000
--delta= N:0.002006 E:-0.00461 Elev:
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Trimble 360 Prism: "focus", Prism Const.:2.0mm
SS,OP475,FP476,AR185.003546,ZE87.510204,SD595.854801,--NAIL
--Opened by version 6.3.1.10, Ranger3 (ES6KD07466).
TR,OP475,FP476,AR185.003546,ZE87.510204,SD595.854801,--NAIL
--Activating Total Station: Manual Mode Manual Mode, Direct Connect,9600,None
OC,OP476,N 4999.982426,E -10000.840762,EL,--NAIL
BK,OP476,BP475,BS14.441167,BC0.0000
LS,HI0.000,HR0.000
--SS,OP476,FP483,AR185.195100,ZE90.000000,SD525.276539,--CHK 401
--Record deleted at 21:35:22 on 7/14/2022
--raw= HR:0.0 HA:0.0000 SD:595.738244 ZA:91.504848
--Check By Distance: HA:0.0000 ZE:91.504848 SD:595.738
--BS check 476 - 475:ZE91.504848,SD595.738244,HD err= -0.006761
--BS Circle check : angular err= 0.0000
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Generic Prism: "My Prism", Prism Const.:0.0mm
--Activating Total Station: Spectra Precision FOCUS 30/35, Direct Connect,9600,None
OB,OP476,FP475,AR0.000000,ZE91.504848,SD595.738244,--NAIL
--Check Point: Date: 7/14/22, Time: 21:47:23.000
--delta= N:0.006539 E:0.00172 Elev:
-- 2D Station Setup
--Target Trimble 360 Prism: "focus", Prism Const.:2.0mm
SS,OP476,FP483,AR185.200834,ZE88.440508,SD525.385719,--CHK 401
--Opened by version 6.3.1.10, Ranger3 (ES6KD07466).
--Opened by version 6.3.1.10, Ranger3 (ES6KD07466).
--Activating Total Station: Manual Mode Manual Mode, Direct Connect,9600,None
OC,OP473,N 6188.546512,E -9744.349164,EL,--NAIL
BK,OP473,BP475,BS189.433621,BC0.0000
LS,HI0.000,HR0.000
SS,OP473,FP484,AR71.595300,ZE90.000000,SD74.288539,--NAIL
--Backup to archive: 2rra Date: 07-17-2022 Time: 07:36:49
--Loaded Report File: MILLER2_RERUN__Complete Survey Report.htm
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Just curious but why are the dates assigned to your point so different? If I am reading this correctly they vary between 11 years.
Thanks.
@ricklife set up your instrument somewhere, level it, manually sight something repeatable, corner of window, something like that or use a target, at least 300 feet away is good but not absolutely essential.
Sight, write down horizontal and vertical angle, plunge the telescope and turn to it, sight again, write down the angles. The horizontal angles should be 180?ø apart within 10? or so depending on how careful you are, zenith angles should add up to 360?ø. That??s an easy check on your instrument.
If you are using a prism pole, center the bubble with the pole about 15 feet away from the instrument (at least a bipod is needed). Sight up and down the pole to see if it is plumb. Turn the pole 90?ø and center the bubble again, sight up and down.
Check your instrument optical plummet??setup as usual, rotate the instrument looking in the plummet every 60?ø or so, the plummet should stay centered.
Finally, All the modern instruments I have used have a check and adjust function you can run through to calibrate the instrument.
@ricklife Just a quick look (hopefully did the subtractions close in my head) at the angles from the first posting and this posting shows differences ranging from 1 second up to almost 2 minutes on the same angles.?ÿ And they seem to just wiggle around with no reason I can see from just a quick glance.?ÿ Not sure why that would be the case.
Check the back of your instrument manual.?ÿ There should be several checks to run to see if there is an issue with the instrument.
If you are using a prism pole, center the bubble with the pole about 15 feet away from the instrument (at least a bipod is needed). Sight up and down the pole to see if it is plumb. Turn the pole 90?ø and center the bubble again, sight up and down
Youtube showing another method of checking the rod bubble for level, and then adjusting it.
Also check and verify your prisms. ?ÿI see that two different prism??s are being used 1. Focus 2mm offset and 2. Generic 0.00mm prism. ?ÿI just saw that in your second run glancing through. ?ÿSo are you using 2 different prisms and are both on prism poles? ?ÿIf you are using 2 different prisms no big deal as long as you are applying the correct prism offset and it matches the instrument specs. ?ÿSome prisms may say -30mm but with different instruments that might change based on internal edm offset. So a -35mm for lieca might need a different offset for a Trimble gun. ?ÿOr topcon etc. ?ÿyou can check your poles very easy. I just went through this with a 2m fixed height rod following a gps unit. The bubble was sometimes level. The darn rubber inside the housing had all but dry rotted. After the repair no more problems. ?ÿ
I've run the 2 sets of data together and eliminated a few outliers (ie/ the poorest fitting measurements) from each.?ÿ The adjustment statistics are good, and neither data set is what I'd call "busted". The angles at 400 and at 404 in the second set are amongst these outliers.?ÿ The angles at 453 and 473 are the outliers in the first set.?ÿ
?ÿ
With OleManRiver's suggestion about prisms, I just ran each traverse with no adjustments.?ÿ Besides the fairly sizable (my opinion) angle differences I've already noted between the two instances you measured, the distances all seemed to agree within 5 hundredths except for two locations.?ÿ Since some of the angles matched within seconds of each other and some of the distances matched within hundredths of each other, I wouldn't suspect it to be strictly an instrument or setting issue.?ÿ Why some matched so closely and some seem to be way to far from agreement between the two runs is something that I can't see in the data.?ÿ But there is a problem with the each set of data collected since they differ in various places as much as they do.
Edit to say - double checking as the distance may have been at my end.
@jon-payne I didn't quite understand what you were saying
@ricklife I was checking how each set of distances compared.?ÿ I made a mistake, so ignore what I had typed.
From the appearance of it, your distances seem consistent with the assumption that you are using a plumbing pole with no bi-pod helping to keep it positioned.?ÿ It looked like about 5 hundredths distance difference in some of the lines.
Hey guys just wanted to update you. After a $400 calibration of the robot, the 3rd run of the traverse produced an inverse of 0.09 of the start and close points. Haven't ran the closure ratio but good lord thank the baby Jesus it closed. From 1.6' on first run to 1.3 on 2nd run to 0.1 after the calibration. Crazy huh. Thanks for all your help and insight on this issue!!
a $400 calibration of the robot
Well worth it. 400 bucks will get you a 2-person crew for maybe an hour and a half around here.
I wonder what the total price would be if we added up all the hours that this forum spent sifting through the data and multiplied it by the standard office tech/project surveyor rate. I probably put in a couple of hours in my off time, and that likely doesn't even come close to the time you spent in the field re-running everything.
Just goes to show, regular checks and calibrations save money, they don't waste it.
I wonder what the total price would be if we added up all the hours that this forum spent sifting through the data and multiplied it by the standard office tech/project surveyor rate.
Way more than the few bucks I contribute to this valuable site every month.
Way more.
See my signature line if anyone feels compelled to send Wendell and Angel a little thank you $ note.
@ricklife Thanks for stopping back in and updating us.?ÿ Can't speak for everyone that played with the data, but I would wager a little money that they would be interested in the outcome as well.
Hope you'll continue to post and be active on the forum.
Yes keeping equipment checked out and sent in at-least once a year for cleaning and calibration is a no brainer. ?ÿI met a crew this past week. Setting up a backsight I noticed as I turned the optical plummet on tribrach and it was not centered. Grabbed the other one not as bad but same issue. Since we were just locating something that did not need to be that tight we used rods with bi pods. But I dropped the equipment off at dealer on way home and picked up next day. I didn??t have time to do it myself this time and it was to freaking hot outside. Lol.?ÿ