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Affordable GPS

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PentaxBob
(@pentaxbob)
Posts: 37
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Topic starter
 

Iƒ??m an instrument man on a small low budget crew. In Massachusetts terrain string & compass lot corner recon can be tough in swampy areas or thick brier patches. With the help of my Masters ME son Iƒ??ve worked out computation of GPS coordinates for plot plan lot corners when I know GPS coordinates for one corner. Now I need to lay hands on something affordable to give me GPS coordinates in the field accurate to within 5 feet or better. With that I could measure the first corner, compute the rest and then compute compass bearing and distance from any location to a target corner as I work around obstacles. Problem is I know nothing about GPS equipment. Accurate and affordable used GPS, any chance such a thing exists? If so, how do I find it? Ideally it would give bearing and distance to a target.

 
Posted : May 9, 2023 5:57 pm
jimcox
(@jimcox)
Posts: 1999
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What brand gear do you run? - you may already have what you want

The Trimble controllers can do what you ask just with their internal gps (to maybe 3m)

 
Posted : May 9, 2023 9:12 pm
tfdoubleyou
(@tfdoubleyou)
Posts: 132
Supporter
 

Carlson just released a new setup that might be what you need, it's a combination data collector and GNSS antenna. The antenna is small and lightweight, the actual brains of the receiver are built into the DC. Combined with a VRS service, you'd be approaching survey quality. Other advantage you'd be using tried-and-true SurvPC. Should you ever decide to upgrade to a proper GNSS setup, you'd be up to speed and it the transition would be easy. The package is just released, so pricing isn't clear, but I would guess somewhere in the $6-8k

Another option would be something from Emlid. The Reach RS2+ claims to be sub centimeter and is less than $3k. If VRS wasn't an option, I believe you can run a base/rover setup. Data collector is a bit dodgier as I think you'd have to just run an Android tablet. Overall though it'd be inexpensive and probably fine just for recon.

 
Posted : May 10, 2023 7:18 am
oldpacer
(@oldpacer)
Posts: 656
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I used my cell phone and a Taiwanese antennae for a while until I convinced myself NRTK would work for me. Look at Field Genius Android supported models. Back then South, Ruide and Stonex were midrange priced and had built in firmware. Good Luck.

 
Posted : May 10, 2023 11:41 am
Dean Hill
(@dean-hill)
Posts: 8
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Go to Igage.com and look around. If you need some help talk with Mark Silver.

 
Posted : May 10, 2023 5:08 pm

beuckie
(@beuckie)
Posts: 348
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Go to Igage.com and look around. If you need some help talk with Mark Silver.

+1 for my buddy Mark Silver. 

 

 
Posted : May 11, 2023 6:22 am
Crashbox
(@crashbox)
Posts: 542
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I bought a pair of Emlid RS2s for a base/rover setup because the total cost for the pair was less than a single unit from some other manufacturers. As far as data collection is concerned, since I already had FieldGenius which recognizes the Emlid rover it was a non-issue for me. The Emlid rover has played nicely with my Mesa 2 running FG. However, you must use the Emlid Flow app on a smartphone to set up the base unit prior to using FG in the aforementioned base/rover configuration FYI.

I have been very happy with my purchase.

 
Posted : May 13, 2023 6:32 am
rover83
(@rover83)
Posts: 2346
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@crashbox 

How are processing & adjusting your data for control and linework? Does Emlid have post processing software, or export a format compatible with other programs?

 
Posted : May 14, 2023 9:41 am
Crashbox
(@crashbox)
Posts: 542
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It is possible to post-process Emlid data using their Studio PC program for PPK (which I believe uses the open-source RTKLIB, etc. as an engine). I tried PPK recently and lat/long were OK but the elevations were wonky...

I usually establish my local control using a dedicated static-only GNSS receiver, so I can't at this time speak for Emlid's capabilities along those lines. Emlid does have a subscription-based app where you can store linework but I've never used it. FieldGenius can export AutoCAD .dwg & .dxf files straightaway, but I'm not sure about the Emlid app. I believe the free Emlid Studio program can export RINEX files for use in other programs.

My workflow consists of establishing local control via one or more static observations greater than two hours in length each, running it through OPUS (and sometimes NRCAN or AUSPOS), then using the Emlid pair in a base/rover configuration. Since I'm retired and do this essentially just to play around, there might be a more efficient way to do it but I really don't care 😉

As a postscript, I am looking into using one or possibly both Emlids in static mode to do simultaneous static observations, then post-process using third-party software such as Carlson's SurveyGNSS. At the very least, I plan on using my base Emlid to gather static info while RTK'ing and running the resultant RINEX file through OPUS.

I sure wish that NGS would release their M-PAGES engine for OPUS; I would LOVE to take advantage of multiple GNSS constellations via OPUS.

 
Posted : May 14, 2023 3:29 pm
toeknee
(@toeknee)
Posts: 71
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@crashbox  I've successfully begun to use Emlid Studio to convert a .ubx file to RINEX and SurveyGNSS to process static baselines.  I had a Carlson BRx5 on the other end.  The BRx5 is GPS&GLONASS only, so my SurveyGNSS baseline solutions of course only used those two constellations.  It all worked well. As this was a new process for me, I also got OPUS solutions for both ends of the baselines.  I brought the baselines and the OPUS solutions into SurvNet and it all adjusted together well.

SurveyGNSS will work with .ubx files directly, but I don't use that feature much.  I prefer to get all my observations into RINEX format, correct the RINEX header information, and do any trimming before I pull the data into SurveyGNSS. 

 

 
Posted : May 14, 2023 4:46 pm

Crashbox
(@crashbox)
Posts: 542
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@toeknee That's really good to hear, thank you for sharing the info. SurveyGNSS looks like a pretty decent piece of software, and within my budget as well even though I'm just surveying basically as a (somewhat expensive) hobby nowadays.

 
Posted : May 14, 2023 5:02 pm
toeknee
(@toeknee)
Posts: 71
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@pentaxbob  As others said, what you already have -- especially in the way of a data collector -- will likely determine the best answer for you.

My data collector is a Windows tablet with Carlson SurvPC on it.   I found out that SurvPC will, along connecting to my Total Station and survey GNSS receiver,  will also connect to some cheaper GPS devices, which make it great for recon and preliminary corner searching. I found a cheap device (BadElf) that will stream GPS location data (NMEA) to SurvPC over Bluetooth.

I plot the deed in the office (Carlson Survey), assuming approximate coordinates from Google earth for one of the corners and perhaps guess at a bearing basis using what I see in Google Earth.  I load the plot (point coordinates and dwg) into my data collector, and head out.  As I find corners, I localize my deed plot to what I find, and then go look for the rest.   It's not always +/- 5 feet, so I don't dig too deep based on it, but I will wave my pin locator around for 10 minutes and often find pins and can usually find my boss's old control nails.  I can go out with my data collector, the BadElf in my pocket, my pin locator, and perhaps a shovel, but not have to not drag around a pole & big GNSS receiver all day up and down all the hills.

Some data collectors have a consumer-grade gps receiver built-in to make this process easy.

 
Posted : May 14, 2023 5:09 pm
toeknee
(@toeknee)
Posts: 71
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@crashbox  You might want to demo CHC Geomatics Office 2 from Mark Silver (igage) too.  It's a third of the cost of SurveyGNSS.  I bought SurveyGNSS because I also use Carlson Survey and Carlson SurvPC.   The SurveyGNSS UI isn't quite as refined as SurvPC and SurveyGNSS, but it does work well, it's very capable, it's very customizable if you dig in under the covers, and the Carlson support is hard to beat.  Looking at the YouTube demos of CHC GEO2, it has some interesting features and the UI looks clean.  Mark Silver (igage) who appears to be the primary US dealer for CHC isn't a fan of the UBX data and he has a point, it's a little tricky to convert properly.  There are a few RTKLIB options that need to properly set.  But Emlid Studio takes care of that (I often use the "convert for OPUS option in Studio).

I wish I had demoed both CHC GEO2 and SurveyGNSS before I purchased SurveyGNSS.  I'm doing volunteer work for a land conservancy under the supervision of a licensed surveyor, so it's basically a hobby for me too.

 
Posted : May 14, 2023 5:18 pm
Crashbox
(@crashbox)
Posts: 542
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@toeknee I did take a test drive of CHC's GEO2 about 18 months ago- I successfully blew it up by throwing a ton of reference stations in (more is better, right? hehehehe). But I will give a MAJOR +1 to Mark Silver, he's really a great person in the survey world and in fact my dedicated static-only GNSS receiver is an iGage i5 that works very well indeed.

At this point in time I'm looking at SurveyGNSS and probably the PPP add-on module.

 
Posted : May 14, 2023 5:29 pm
PentaxBob
(@pentaxbob)
Posts: 37
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Topic starter
 

I'm afraid I'm back in the world of simple total stations. I'm looking for a device that measures my coordinates, lets me key in GPS coordinates of a lot corner, and helps me keep on track heading toward that corner when I have to work around obstacles. I looked at descriptions of a Garmin GPSMAP 66SR which claims 2 meter accuracy, but I don't think that will do what I'm talking about.

 
Posted : May 14, 2023 5:30 pm

toeknee
(@toeknee)
Posts: 71
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@pentaxbob You might be able to do it with a hiking app on your phone.  Most of the common apps (I like Gaia and CalTopo) let you save your current coordinates.  They also let you enter destination coordinates and will navigate you to that point, giving you a distance and azimuth to travel, along with an arrow on your phone screen, as you walk towards it, kinda like staking out a point.

You could give it a try.  It'd probably be within a few meters or so.

CalTopo will even let you draw a line running a specified azimuth for a specified distance from a specified point.  CalTopo was developed with Search And Rescue teams in mind, so it has some features can are useful for surveying and GIS-type work.

However most of the apps work in "WGS84" coordinates, which can be a bother if you're working in, say, State Plane coordinates based on NAD83.  But if you're standing at one corner and need to walk, say, N40E for 1200', you could do it with CalTopo to some degree of accuracy.  Now of course the previous surveyor might have used a different basis for their bearings, but hey that's part of the fun of surveying.

 
Posted : May 14, 2023 6:04 pm
oldpacer
(@oldpacer)
Posts: 656
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@pentaxbob  The paid version of cell phone apps will let you do that, with or without underlying aerial basemaps.

 
Posted : May 15, 2023 8:29 am
Norman_Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
Posts: 7810
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Somebody who is clever with such things should produce a phone app that will accept SP coordinates as input/output. 

 
Posted : May 15, 2023 9:17 am
oldpacer
(@oldpacer)
Posts: 656
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@norman-oklahoma    Fieldgenius Android.  Internal autonomous usually+/- 4 feet, worst +/- 7 feet.

 
Posted : May 15, 2023 10:02 am
RADAR
(@dougie)
Posts: 7889
Member
 

A paid app on your phone is the way to go, for recon. I loaded the free trial version of OnXhunt and walked right up to property corners with their parcel map. didn't have to input anything. They market to hikers and hunters, but i believe they have all the parcel lines in the country.

But I have survey grade GNSS so I don't need to pay for something I don't need.

Your mileage may vary...

 

 
Posted : May 15, 2023 11:39 am

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