@spmpls Thanks for the heads up, but California is consuming Colorado (and the other western states) so I??m pretty much already there. 🙂
My son is/was an Oklahoma registrant. He has an Associates Degree in Civil Technology. He was the survey manager of his company in OK. He was my boss when I first went to OK. Then he spent a time as a survey equipment salesman before coming back to Oregon.
He passed the Oregon test handily. But Oregon wouldn't accept his experience during his time as a Survey Manager since that time was not under a licensed professional who could attest to his time. This in spite of the fact that they considered him qualified, as a registrant of another state, to attest to the experience of others! They said that they wanted him to obtain another 16 months experience to make up the 12 years Oregon requires.
Eventually he appealed to the board in person. The word "attorney' was mentioned in his conversations with them. They finally relented.?ÿ
So my advise to you is to lean on your state board. They have leeway.?ÿ?ÿ
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@horseshoes-handgrenades - You don't need to move to California to obtain a land surveyor license there.?ÿ As SPMPLS mentioned, California requirements are experienced based...it doesn't matter where that experience is gained, just as long as it qualifies under the supervision of a person authorized to practice land surveying.?ÿ Have you passed the PS exam yet??ÿ If not, register at NCEES and choose the California Board and then you can take it anytime you want without submitting an application first.
Ping me. We should talk.
You're doing everything right. I left Colorado and maybe new mexico for similar reasons.
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Your quest is very similar to mine.
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The capricious and arbitrary decisions both state boards made recently are probably not the best direction they could take surveying.
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Lawyers were involved to be sure.
In 2017 NMBLPEPS recognized work and ANY science degree that was augmented with appropriate surveying course work.
2019. Only a board approved program. Great way to lose quality and interested people. No other routes except commity and thats a whole other discussion.?ÿ
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Before you proceed, be sure that there are no other technicalities that would prevent you from qualifying.?ÿ?ÿ
I disagree with the survey specific B.S. requirement due to the lack of reasonable access to universities offering the degree and the tendency of ABET programs to focus too much on engineering.
Online courses are available now because of Covid but they tend to be clunky.?ÿ I learned a ton from fellow students and through tutoring.?ÿ This would not have happened in an online course.
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I feel for you, man
We complain about dwindling numbers and the aging of our profession, but then there're some who want to make it all but impossible for those already in our field to progress and obtain their licenses, (here's the kicker), in exactly the same way that we obtained ours.?ÿ
It's either protectionism or elitism going on here.?ÿ Some need to re-read, Animal Farm
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@HH
Did you consider filing an appeal to board??s decision? If not, you should. Explain your circumstances and education, in person if at all possible, you may be surprised. ?????ÿ
Its not your fault. The code as written esp back then was circular circuitous and no one would really try to explain it.
It was hot topic at meetings etc i attended while doing GIS work.
The issues that were created ruined the path.
Its doable, just gotta play the chess to get there now.
@flga-2-2 I believe that??ll likely be my next course of action.
@jitterboogie You'd probably be surprised at the origins of requirements.?ÿ Sometimes, its pressure from licensed professionals at other boards thinking that the "best thing" for the profession is standardized, widely accepted requirements and a degree is MANDATORY.
I've seen this pressure first hand being put on boards which license surveyors and I do not believe an experience only route is detrimental to the profession.
I have no problem with education. If your degree covers the physics and math and all of the everything else, and you have exeperience, just ticking of the classes to peg the hole the by the book requirements of the windmill have should be an option too.
Last year NM gained 6 surveyors from the PS.
4 retired. 2 LSIT were matriculated via the board process.
Net gain 2.?ÿ
This was on the website. It's disappeared and no longer depicts the true state of affairs in my state.?ÿ
This is a losing strategy.
It sounds to me your last course of action. I??m betting it will work. Most Boards are normal surveyors like us and you have an excellent chance, with your current credentials, to be approved right there (assuming you are present at a board meeting).I??m certain I don??t have to say this, but dress for success and be eloquent, but succinct, in verbal responses. Wish you the best. ?????ÿ
I have not looked at Colorado's regulations, but is it possible to get licensed in an adjoining state and then get licensed in Colorado through reciprocity??ÿ ?ÿ
Many states look at the rules that were in effect at the time you first got licensed.?ÿ So, if he'd been licensed for 20 years, some states will waive the education requirement if they didn't have it 20 years ago.?ÿ
That wouldn't be the case now.?ÿ But, I don't know Co rules either.
Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on your point of view, states vary quite a bit on the education requirement.
I know nothing of CO rules but it seems reasonable to me that already having a 4 year degree in an earth science, but no focus on geomatics, the board would likely accept a 2 year ABET accredited geomatics program degree in lieu of a 4 year geomatics degree, which you could likely complete remotely while not giving up your day job. One thing I've found in working with our BOR is that they are flexible and do have discretion, but are hesitant to set precedents they might later regret. Was me I would fully explore all options with your BOR before pulling up roots. Some companies will also offset part of the costs of additional education if they would stand to benefit which might offset some of the cost of out of state tuition. Good luck.?ÿ
Everyone advising to fight the board is wrong. The board does have discretion, and you can use it to your advantage, but asking them to licence you at this point is asking them to not follow their regulations. They wont do that.
But...you don't need another degree. See option four for qualifying. You already have a science degree, you just need 24 credits in surveying classes.There are many online programs that don't charge full out of state rates for part time online study. If you pick your courses wisely you may actually learn something useful.?ÿ
This option is there for people just like you. It meets the NCEES model law requirements, so will be accepted as a qualification to sit for the state exam in almost every state.?ÿ
What I want to say:
Complaining about following the rules that say you must have a college degree to practice as a professional in the state does not bolster faith that the complainer will follow the rules if given a license.?ÿ
but won't.
What I will say, is that in my state, you are not considered a professional unless your licensure requires a disagree. Geodesy, application of statutes, error analysis and proofing technological suggestions are not easily tested. Besides, ALL of the jacklegs in my area were grandfathered in.
Most surveyors, really, really want to be surveyors; it would have been easier and more profitable to be something else. It just seems to me that if you really wanted to be a surveyor, you would have figured out what the rules were BEFORE you applied for a license.?ÿ
The issue isn't they weren't qualified to take the exam. Passing it certainly is proof that they were, the issue is that they aren't qualified to be a professional surveyor.?ÿ
Every state?ÿ measures qualification by exams, experience, and education. Rarely is only one of these things alone enough to prove minimum competency.
I would be in awe of anyone who could write an exam that on its own can measure a surveyors competency. Exams are useful tools but they can't substitute for four years of college and real experience.?ÿ
