I was recently reviewing the FS and PS practice exam published by NCEES.?ÿ I have not taken these exams, but just looking at them, many of the questions are vague, misguided and/or disturbing.?ÿ I've been a PS since 1982 and have done thousands of surveys.
Here is the NCEES Question No. 15 from the PS practice exam
As a surveyor crew party chief, you have been instructed to go to a large construction site located 140 miles from your office.?ÿ Once at the site, you are to immediately take ground elevations over a 3-acre site to be used for stockpiling sand. These elevations will be the base from which stockpile volumes will be calculated.?ÿ When you arrive at the site, the contractor has four earthmovers ready to stockpile sand.?ÿ Your crew now discovers that they did not put the total station or level in the truck.?ÿ The contractor has a 1935 dumpy level to lend you.?ÿ As the surveyor in charge, you should:
A.?ÿ Tell the contractor that it will be three hours before the sand can be stockpiled
B.?ÿ Call the office and have the instruments brought to you
C.?ÿ Tell the contractor that you will have to do a peg test
D.?ÿ Tell the contractor that to do this job right you must have your total station and will need to return to your office to get it.
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According to the the solution in the test exam, the correct answer is C.?ÿ?ÿ
This question is unacceptable in my opinion.?ÿ Thinking through the question, several things are at stake here for a professional land surveyor, and they are common in my opinion.
- It is my firmest opinion that catastrophic results can happen if a contractor rushes a party chief.?ÿ I can imagine that doing a peg test might work perfectly, but might not catch a loose reticle or loose lens or even a bad bubble mount.?ÿ For a person who has not done this regularly, and who is under time pressure with big machines idling and antsy, this is too risky.?ÿ Plus, we do not know how rough the terrain is.?ÿ Being pushed for action is the single-most important risk factor in flying airplanes.?ÿ?ÿ
- With machines idling and party chief under pressure with an unfamiliar instrument, unnecessary risk occurs.?ÿ The base of the pile might be used for years for future volume measurements.?ÿ Huge litigation could occur with an error even though the material is just sand.
- The instrument man should slow down and get his equipment using B or D in my opinion.
- If I sent a crew to a site to do this job, and they returned having done it with a 1935 level that they pegged, and surveyed probably without redundancy checks with a contractor pushing them, I'd be worried about it, and I would not be happy.?ÿ?ÿ
- For a survey crew to do their job right they should use their familiar techniques, their own equipment, and not let anyone rush them--ever. This job has "rush" written all over it.
If the NCEES wanted to know if the surveyor knows what a peg test is they should just ask it.?ÿ?ÿ
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This is one of many questions I have seen on the PS and FS practice exams that are not good.?ÿ I think of the person taking these tests who desperately needs to pass them in order to support his family, and a few questions like this could cause failure.?ÿ ?ÿI ran this questions by three experienced PLSs and all told me that a peg test on a 1935 level without checking for loose reticle, etc and under pressure can be disastrous.?ÿ And if an error was made, imagine yourself on the stand under cross examination after your competition found out you had an error on the base of the pile after about 4 years of using the pile measurements for selling millions of dollars worth of sand....."Mr. Willis are you telling the court that you showed up without your instruments??ÿ Are you that disorganized??ÿ Do you have ADD??ÿ And with machines running and time pressure, you used a level that is 85 years old??ÿ Did you check your work with redundant measurements? Don't ya'll send instruments to shops for calibration??ÿ How many have you calibrated under pressure in the field??ÿ Reticle??ÿ Loose lens??ÿ Your honor, I'm filing a motion for Daubert and declaratory judgment."
My firmest opinion is that B is what I'd try first and D would be second.
I am a horrible multiple choice test taker, but questions like this just seem to be bad questions.?ÿ This question is found in the Practices exam (PS) and not the FS exam.?ÿ We all know what pegging an instrument is.?ÿ The practice they assign is erroneous in my opinion.?ÿ
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You are correct. If you approach these exams from your real-life experiences and education, you will fail. These exams are actually learning tools, to teach you how NCEES wants us to survey. You find many questions like this are intended to mis-lead you down a path they want you to follow.
Not a good question in general for FS, but horrible question for PS exam IMHO. Not only does this bring up liability issues as you have said, but the answers are set up horribly in general. I don??t even need to read the question to answer it ??correctly?. Have these people written multiple choice answers before? Answer A doesn??t make sense for anything, and answers B and D are essentially the same thing. Leaving answer C as the only one left to choose. Don??t know how this question ever made it to the practice exam.
You are right, it is a bad question. To answer questions like this you have to annalise the question itself, not the situation posed in the in the question.?ÿ The possible correct answers are B,C, or D. In analyzing these answers is quickly becomes obvious that to choose between B and D requires more information. Is there anyone in the office? If there is, are they busy working on more important time sensitive projects? ect... So the correct answer has to be C.?ÿ
This question requires you to recognize that a peg test has something to do with a dumpy level, but a more direct approach would be better.?ÿ
An 85 year old level will still give you better relative elevations than a brand new GPS system.
Aliquot, I see your point, but I have one hell of a time trying to do that.?ÿ I agree about the level, but that is not the issue.?ÿ The issue is urgency as stated in the question. Plus, he was using a total station.?ÿ?ÿ
I don't understand how one can eliminate an answer because more information is needed.?ÿ I guess it is just my own logic and why I have trouble with multiple choice and true-false.?ÿ I will try some of the other bad questions on the test and apply your logic.?ÿ It might be very helpful to me.?ÿ I never looked at it that way.?ÿ?ÿ
But I still think that there should be no bad questions on a standardized test that is used to determine someone's career.?ÿ That is negligence in my mind.
I chose C and here is why I answered the way I did.
I was taught by my boundary law professor, a practicing PLS, that the questions on the exam are not to be read into. Do not assume anything.
C makes the most sense with the above train of thought. C does not state the quality of the instrument. It is not our job to surmise the condition of the level.
The question is to determine how you approach the job from an economics standpoint. Besides, if you look at the overall scheme of the PS, it's ethics and economics.
Yes, a stupid test question.?ÿ If the chief decides to use the level, of course it needs a thorough examination and a peg test, but why would he need to tell the contractor details like that? Does he have to explain all the other steps to get the data??ÿ The contractor wants to know when the measurements will be done, not the details that go into it.?ÿ (Note I'm NOT saying that three hours is the right answer.)
If someone can bring equipment from the office (about two+ hours), would its efficiency save enough time to make up for the delay, by not having to manually lay out a grid by taping, rocking and manually reading the rod, etc? (Does the contractor even have a rod to go with the level and do you have to read it in inches?)
Really the point of the questions is, if using unknown equipment make sure you calibrate before using it. They could write the question with several different types of equipment.?ÿ?ÿ
Rod is in the truck, the crew only forgot the level. Btw we also using a pocket rod to measure the instrument height, and keep it in the instrument case, in a pinch it can several as a backup rod, or if needing to get an elevation on something a rod cant fit under, set the level up low, and use the pocket rod.
I don't like the question, but of all the answers C is the best one. Thinking of all the times I've set up a baseline and topod off it with a level makes the choice of what to do simple for me, grab the level and topo the ground for the piles so they can move the dirt. No brainer really. Clearly you can measure between two end points for a baseline and locate it later with the TS to merge the topo into site control. Station the baseline and use your right angle prism to lay out a gird, good enough for a base topo for stockpiles.
Putting in peg the level seems to be a needless way to confuse the question, of course you would check to see if it is properly adjusted.
You are right, the test should be a test of your knowledge of the job, not your ability to take multiple choice tests. Although it was a while ago, I remember when I took the test, the official practice exam had a lot more of these ambiguous questions than the actual test. Did any one with recent experience have a similar 2?
But really the best answer is I would leave the site immediately and say, "sorry there has been a mistake, I thought you needed a boundary survey."
Why not call the office, have the equipment delivered, run the peg test and start gathering elevations with the old level until the equipment gets there?
Unless it's a state job.?ÿ Then you can just combine all the coffee breaks into a four hour block while someone delivers the equipment... 😉 ?ÿ
What the HE(double hockey sticks) does this question have to do with LAND Surveying????ÿ
I thought that the point of becoming a "Professional" LAND Surveyor (and the testing thereof), was to enable a person to PROPERLY perform surveys related to Boundaries, not "Engineering Technician" stuff.?ÿ
Loyal
