I don't necessarily see math as a problem
I know your problem well. Geometry and the Cartesian plane model the real world, they are not always the real world. In one of my advanced modeling classes, which includes trig, I took my students to a nearby power pole with a guy wire. The purpose? Some were having trouble determining on a right triangle drawing which line represented the guy wire. In other words, they had difficulty connecting the trig model and its associated diagram with an actual pole and wire.
But they're students, which means that they're still learning, and they're going to screw stuff up. Now, their screw-ups result in lower grades, but it's much more serious when they get to you.
I believe our dilemma runs deeper than management style. For most folks personality drives the way they talk to others. Seminars and classes may impact some, but grumpy old men generally remain grumpy. They also get older or dead. The part of communication I see needing the most work is technical. These 'kids' are fresh out of school and still remember standard math terms and symbols. Us grey hairs that grew up on 'mathematical violence' to solve problems need to learn and stay current on this. You cannot communicate solutions if you speak a different language than the student...
Beyond this I believe we need to change our business model. If we do not return to investing in future Surveyors, our Profession will continue to decline. This includes a lot of things.
Price has driven us to send out one and two man crews. For many jobs this is enough to get it done, and quality does not suffer. On others the mistakes and problems are glaring. We bite the bullet and send the crew back to clean it up. The ones that keep me up at night are the hidden errors and omissions (pun intended). If we don't build the time or money into our rates, we likely don't provide enough supervision to do a proper job, meet code on responsible charge OR pass on any skills.
When I propose on projects I put in money for these things. I explain to my client what he gets and what he doesn't. I am almost never low price but I get a lot of work. It's also easier to look in the mirror.
Another part of this is personal commitment. Life changes have kept me from participating in our professional society the way I would like. I shave about 15 minutes a day of my time card to compensate for time spent mentoring. I keep myself sharp by reading and or writing an hour a day as well. It improves me and makes me sound smarter when passing skills on:^)
Entering the final quarter of my career I have concerns for this profession. I also have hope. We can either lament the current crop of up and coming Surveyors, or we can reflect on the day we were handed a plumb bob and made to 'throw the chain' while the rest of the crew watched (hoping to poke fun as you failed). We were all green, dumb and different at one time. Give the new dorks a chance and pass it on...
I Am Not Your Firend. I Am Your Father, Boss, Professor
> etc. ad nauseum.
>
> I you do not respect others, why should anyone respect you.
>
> One earns respect, you do not get it for just showing up.
>
> Just wait for the Common Core Survey Exam.
>
> Paul in PA
Wow. Respect is a two way street kind sir.
One earns respect, you do not get it for just being elderly, father, boss, professor, general head of whatever.
I learned early on that in order to be a good leader, I first had to learn to be a good follower. Everybody wants to be a Chief and nobody wants to be an Indian. Don't get to be a Chief unless you know what it's like to be an Indian. Indians respect the chief, not because he has a bunch of feathers in his bonnet, but because they know that he knows.
Disclaimer: Any reference to Native Americans is for illustrations purposes only and is not intended to be construed as racist or bigoted. Any patent claims can be forwarded to the following phone number: 1-800-eat-poop.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
I love it...
> ...but grumpy old men generally remain grumpy. They also get older or dead.
Amen. I knew I was going to get grey, but I didn't know it was going to hurt. My feet hurt, my back hurts, everything gives me gas and I have a prostate the size of a grapefruit....I earn my grump everyday!
As for passing on something besides gas, I'm all for it if some younger surveyor wants to take the time to learn what I can teach. But the burden of the task is NOT in my court, it's in the hands of the student, not the master.
If they want to learn, then let's get with the wax-on, wax-off!
I love it...
> > ...but grumpy old men generally remain grumpy. They also get older or dead.
>
> Amen. I knew I was going to get grey, but I didn't know it was going to hurt. My feet hurt, my back hurts, everything gives me gas and I have a prostate the size of a grapefruit....I earn my grump everyday!
>
> As for passing on something besides gas, I'm all for it if some younger surveyor wants to take the time to learn what I can teach. But the burden of the task is NOT in my court, it's in the hands of the student, not the master.
>
> If they want to learn, then let's get with the wax-on, wax-off!
Very good, Paden.
And I say that only because I agree, naturally.
To put what you're saying in an ancient way:
When the student is ready, the master appears.
Don
I love it...
Talking to someone is one thing. Communicating with someone is a very, very different thing entirely. Communication requires both to pay attention throughout. Getting that to happen is a trick when you are dealing with people whose normal attention span is about 2.5 seconds. Patience no longer exists or has, at least, been redefined to explain waiting more than 2.5 seconds for something.
Is there anyone out there today who can actually plan out their entire day prior to going to work, then actually follow through on that plan precisely. We used to do that somewhat routinely. Then they invented cell phones and such other devices as would keep the rest of the universe a keystroke away from disturbing us for any possible reason that could be conceived. Today, no one even attempts to plan and schedule. They toss out general goals and then attempt to get back to attaining those goals after each of the 200 interruptions that will occur.
Each boundary survey should be a complicated process. It should not be a case of grabbing some coordinates out of a company-maintained database, then getting to the site and blindly inserting monuments where the whizbangmagicthingy says to put them.
I love it...
> When the student is ready, the master appears.
Conversely; a true master doesn't take on a student who isn't ready, then blame the student for his inadequacies.
I love it...
> > When the student is ready, the master appears.
>
> Conversely; a true master doesn't take on a student who isn't ready, then blame the student for his inadequacies.
Obversly; if the student isn't ready he won't recognize the master and, rather than being blamed for his inadequacies, risks learning the sound of one hand slapping:-)
Don