It is a simple section corner. Southeast corner of Section 1. Nothing special, but within a mile of a significant US highway. Searched for surveys and corner records. The only public record was from the early 1990's when a 60d nail was found by a very reputable surveyor while working in Section 7 to the southeast. The DOT survey had been in the late 1970's so the 60d was probably left behind by that contractor even though that corner was not essential for their work.
Talked with the fellow from the house in the southwest corner of Section 6 who strolled out to see what kind of idiot was digging up a perfectly good county road. He confessed that when he bought his four acres he and the realtor picked a spot near the middle of the intersection and measured along the section line going north and the section line going east and made up a description. The seller didn't want to pay for a survey and neither did this guy.
Whipped out the magic yellow stick and BAMMMMMMMM one heck of a signal for a 60d that I had guessed would be at least six inches deep in the crushed rock road bed. Went down about 10 inches to discover a chunk of small railroad-type rail nice and vertical. Had never seen one used for a section corner, especially in the middle of a road intersection. No local surveyor would have done that. What the heck is going on?????
While tying things together we dug up the monuments at the north and west quarter corners of Section 7 as noted in the survey from the early 1990's. When I checked this all out in AUTOCAD I discovered the rail was over two feet north of where the record 60d should have been found. Went back this morning and found the unmolested 60d within a quarter inch of record location.
Now, I want to know who was the fool that went to all the trouble to set that rail in the wrong place and why. The local surveyors have done an excellent job of recording their surveys and I had the only one of record in my hands. A land owner surely wouldn't go to that much trouble in a spot that was not one of their critical corners (where they need to build a fence). Why, why, why?
My corner record will note existence of the rail and that it is NOT the corner in hopes some future surveyor doesn't come along and do the same thing I did. To top it all off, three reference nails were found that obviously were set by some surveyor other than the one in the early 1990's. Who was that and what were they surveying?
Okay, although I hate to ask the obvious question, but will anyway.
Did you dig deep enough to see which "monument" was set over the top of the original stone?
Just asking.
😉
is there a railroad near?
I've seen rails used to mark ROWs in eastern Nebraska.
I do have questions. What type of monuments did you find at the west and north 1/4 corners of Sec. 7? Does Kansas have a minimum requirement for PLSS monuments? Or will you accept the nail?
I like Loyal's suggestion that there may be a stone down below. A friend that works/worked for KDOT used to enjoy digging up original stones near corners of common report. I don't believe the other surveyors in the area much enjoyed his digging, though.
Apparently, this post may lead to a redux of the "digging in roads" topic that caused a ruckus here recently.
I don't know if that is the intent.
I have recovered rails as property and section corners that were set by county surveyors.
Many set circa 1910-1950
A 60d nail evokes suspicion of ambiguity.
So, instead of simply giving a huge "thank you" to those who came before and monumented the bejeebas out of everything, we ask all sorts of questions..... hmmmmmmm :rofl:
A realtor, with a metal detector... Is not much count... Cause they don't do pick and shovel...
railroad surveyors would sometimes leave a rail at a section corner. I've found a couple of them.
[USER=228]@Loyal[/USER] [USER=9850]@Gene Kooper[/USER]
There theoretically was a stake & pits at this location in 1856 . Road was laid out in 1872. No record of the county engineer/surveyor doing anything to perpetuate the stake & pits in any manner. Not sure who set the 60d but it had obviously been around for some time when found in the early 1990's. Probably the most definite thing to use. Stake & pits were a joke in this region, especially with the construction of roads through most of their positions. Plus depth to solid rock in many places they were allegedly placed would have made them somewhat temporary.
The monuments at the north and west quarter corners of Section 7 were both railroad spikes also found in the early 1990's. The only recorded use of all three corner monuments was the subdivision of Section 7 to create three 20-acre tracts in the northwest quarter.
Yes, Gene, there are supposed minimum standards for monuments in Kansas. The common minimum is a 1/2" diameter iron bar or pipe a minimum of 24 inches in length..............EXCEPT where local conditions preclude their use. That decision is left to the surveyor. The use of railroad spikes is very common when the depth to bedrock is less than 24 inches. In the past, I have used cross tie spikes as they are substantially longer, larger and round rather than oblong. Today, cotton spindles have largely taken that role, especially in county chip and seal type roadways. I have found concrete nails wedged into a crack in limestone bedrock that have been there at least 40 years without being disturbed. One of those is at a section corner in the middle of a crushed rock county road intersection. We have done our best to drill holes in bedrock with very limited success.
What is frustrating in this specific case is that someone clearly ignored the use of that 60d in the early 1990's and apparently earlier by placing that chunk of rail which absolutely no local surveyor would have attempted. First, it can't be longer than about six inches based on the depth to the top of it and the depth to solid rock in that area. Who has such a short chunk of small rail lying around? This is something like the small rail used in an amusement park, not anything that would be around a common railroad.
[USER=700]@MightyMoe[/USER]
Nearest railroads were over a mile and a half to the north, so no connection at this location. As mentioned in the post above, this was not common railroad rail.
I have found many railroad rails used for railroad right-of-way marking and tracts the railroad acquired later, such as grain elevator sites.
This rail was surely set after the early 1990's survey.
Thanks for the info HC. I was curious what your requirements in Kansas are.
In Colorado, I am required to set a 30" long No. 6 rebar and metal cap 6" below the road grade. For your situation where bedrock is 24" below the road surface, I would drill into the bedrock and trim the rebar to be 6" below the road surface. If the road is paved, I'd also have to set a monument box.
Here in the west, survey and disposal was on a slower pace than the plains. We are fortunate enough to have large areas of undusturbed corners from the 1860s. Even our 'urban' areas have pretty good records in many places. I don't think I could ever move back East and keep Surveying..
To the original question, "why"? So you could find it.
o_O :rofl: :p
I don't want to start the digging in roads conversation again, but I have found original stones, and once, the remains of an original stake, with rails above or alongside in that part of the country before. Some of the early county surveyors set various pieces of metal alongside or above originals before road construction.
aliquot, post: 448579, member: 2486 wrote: I don't want to start the digging in roads conversation again...
That one went south with a tailwind for sure.
Similar to HC's area, we have a tremendous number of corners that were set as pits and mounds with no accessories set at the time of the survey. When those corners fall in a county road intersection that has had 100 years of motor patrol maintenance the chances of any remaining evidence are remote at best.
And while unrecorded perpetuation by unknown individuals over the years as a pedigree doesn't look good on paper, sometimes it's all we've got.
Was it a full size rail or one of the smaller mining rails? In AL there were a lot of light rail used for section corner resets in the mining areas. When they would strip mine they would locate the corners then reset with light rail when finished.
Small, maybe four inch height.
Just a thought which I've tried before to determine what was going on. Normally we (surveyors) look for recorded surveys or plats to offer a clue, or in our area, unrecorded surveys which were done prior to the recording act (1973) for some enlightenment. However, we were trying to determine where a stone 1/4 corner was but didn't find it until a landowner about 400 feet to the east called requesting a survey. His deed said to start at a pipe and then gave distances and directions from the stone (and noted it was a stone) along with all the adjoining deeds to the east from him. Once we found the pipes called for in the deeds and backed our way in, there was the stone about 2' down. It might be prudent to look at some deeds in the area to see if one commences at the section corner, and notes what was used (stake, nail, RR iron, sail possom)
Holy Cow, post: 448558, member: 50 wrote: [USER=228]@Loyal[/USER] [USER=9850]@Gene Kooper[/USER]
First, it can't be longer than about six inches based on the depth to the top of it and the depth to solid rock in that area. Who has such a short chunk of small rail lying around? This is something like the small rail used in an amusement park, not anything that would be around a common railroad.
Well, I have one in case I find a very shallow stone. And I also have two 30 foot sticks in the backyard in case I find a really deep stone.
Howard Surveyor, post: 448678, member: 8835 wrote: ... It might be prudent to look at some deeds in the area to see if one commences at the section corner, and notes what was used (stake, nail, RR iron, sail possom)
Good point. Also, if you never find the corner, you might use the local deeds to back in the original location of the corner to re-establish it's location. Many are too quick to double-proportion in a section corner before looking at all local evidence, including calls from the original corner.
