A non-profit group just sent me an email . . . I know the group, so it's not a scam.
They are looking for donations.
In the email, it says with your donation of $35 dollars or more, you get this "free" item.
Now, excuse me, but when someone says, you must give us $xx to get something "free", in my mind this is not "free".
Now, I know that non-profit organizations are allowed to sell items and use the funds within the parameters of laws that control non-profit organizations, but this isn't the route this organization chose.
I say, they are misusing the term "free", by making a monetary requirement(a very specific monetary requirement), for the item.
1) You could make a $35 donation and refuse the free item if you wish.
2) It may be a way around sales tax laws.
3) They may be watching too much late night TV, thinking someone is not gonna part with their money unless they get something "free" in return.
How often do you see advertised ........... "Get one free with every purchase" :pissed:
Free should be FREE!
if they sell you stuff they become a "for profit", not unlike our payment to NPR for our radio announcement makes us underwriters instead of advertisers... semantics huh? go figure..
Black's Law Dictionary....
Not subject to the constraint or dominion of another
Characterized by choice, rather than by compulsion or constraint
Unburdened
Not confined by force or restraint
Unrestricted and unregulated
Costing nothing;gratuitous
The requirement of a donations( a specific or "set" donation at that) for a "free" item is....
constrained
burdened
confined by force(to get the item) and restraint
restricted and regulated
trade of value(money), and not gratuitous
So . . . again . . . is it "free"?
Just pay separate shipping and handling!
ALSO . . .
I won't swear to this, but I think PBS says if you donate, they will "send" to you, this "free", item, which now, might legally imply that the act they are doing for your benefit is not the item, but rather the act of sending the item.
The issue I have with this email I got is plain and simple . . . send us $xx and we will send you xx item.
To me, this is a sales issue.
Since it's now a "sales" issue, I also wonder if it's still a charity issue and a tax-deduction issue?
Semantics beware......
Either you believe and support this non-profit, or you don't
> To me, this is a sales issue.
Either you believe and support this non-profit, or you don't.
This sort of fundraising happens all of the time, and from their side, they probably have a limited number of items to give back to those supporters as a THANK YOU. Those item are a simple cost effective investment to generate funds for the cause and try and give back to those members who need a little motivation, or tangible item as a thanks. Donate or not. The choice is yours. accept the gift, or not, also your choice.
Fundraising and non-profits always remind me of my favorite quote:
"Every man owes a part of his time and money to the business or industry in which he
is engaged. No man has a moral right to withhold his support from an organization
that is striving to improve conditions within his sphere." Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
From the Title of the thread, I thought the non-profit saying you MUST DONATE $35 which is not the case.
Maybe I'm just used to it with PBS and their tote-bags but I see no big deal for them to offer a bonus for donating.
Bottom line, it is an ancient tool of charlatans. Use of a shiny object to misdirect from the hand in the pocket. It is rampant and pervasive. "Genuine Artificial Leather".
semantics in my opinion. i suspect that the 'free' items were donated as well. It is the donation that is helping the nonprofit give an incentive to donate money. Your donation will be used in one way, but not for profit, and not to pay for the "free" gift.
Yes, it's not really free if you are paying (especially if the only reason you are paying is for the free gift). But I think you're mincing words a little bit. They probably just have to put it that way, to, as stated above, not imply they are selling an item for profit, and not imply to you that your donation will go toward paying for the gift.
I'm mincing words??????
Let's get this straight for you . . . if ANYONE is mincing words, it is NOT ME!
"Free" is very well defined.
"Free", has absolutely NOTHING to do with non-profit, donations, tithing, buying or selling.
"Free", only means "free" and free means no encumberances, and no exchange of "value", requirements.
Something in exchange for something is item for value . . . a barter.
"Free", should actually be a very simple thing to understand.
As I said, I do believe that PBS sends you an item . . . in fact I think they send you an item "for free". But one then wonders . . . is it really the act of "sending", that is provided for the donation, as opposed to the item being sent, which is . . . actually free?
I do believe that Black's Law Dictionary has the meaning of "free" correctly stated, regardless of what the majority thinking seems to be here.
AND this has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to, or not wanting to "support" anything.
BTW
Non-profit or Not for Profit, does not mean in any way shape or form that things aren't done to have more money(what we surveyors would call "profit") and an excess of money versus operating costs at the end of the year.
These organizations can have lots and lots of money and they can have more money this year than they had last year.
The issue with "non-profit", is what they can and cannot do with their "profits".
Many, if not most non-profits actually sell items often . . . sales for a non-profit is not verboten, because they're non-profit.
AND the definition of "free", isn't different because of the non-profit nature of the business.
Lagniappe
In New Orleans, years ago when you went to the grocery store around the corner to pick up a loaf of bread and you paid the 25¢, you ask for some "Lagniappe." That's something "for free" (such as a piece of candy) after you paid for the item of your errand.
Pronounced 'Land Yap."
Nope, and the technique is very effective on some older relatives of mine. Fortunatley they can afford to be a little frivolous, but not all can.
Stacks of junk I'll have to address someday.
Steve
someone told me once ....
If the product is free, then you are the product.
I'm mincing words??????
Sorry, mincing words was a poor phrase, in fact, I was mincing words in using it and you weren't mincing words at all.
Technically, it is not "free" if you have to donate money to get it. I just think it is kind of necessary language for a charity (or other groups) to use. I imagine you can't write off some donations as tax write-offs if you purchased a product and aren't allowed to call it a donation. I also imagine that if an artist donated 1000 cd's for the charity to use to raise money, they would want to "give" them away as an incentive for "certain-level donations". But it is all a tax-write-off loophole for sure.
I'm mincing words??????
Also, the people who donate the "free" gifts get free advertizing and promotion of their product.
Uhh... Speaking of DONATIONS......
Well now the that subject has been brought up how about kicking in some bucks for BEERLEG? Since we all love it the least we could do is to send a donation to this board.
I'll start off with a donation of $100. Match me 😉
Y'all have a great weekend! B-)
BTW
> Non-profit or Not for Profit, does not mean in any way shape or form that things aren't done to have more money(what we surveyors would call "profit") and an excess of money versus operating costs at the end of the year.
>
> These organizations can have lots and lots of money and they can have more money this year than they had last year.
>
> The issue with "non-profit", is what they can and cannot do with their "profits".
>
> Many, if not most non-profits actually sell items often . . . sales for a non-profit is not verboten, because they're non-profit.
>
> AND the definition of "free", isn't different because of the non-profit nature of the business.
:good:
It can definitely be a scam.
Joe Kennedy runs a non-profit in MA - Citizen's Energy Corp.
He makes almost $1M per year there, and his wife, almost $300K. But it's a non-profit, and he's a Kennedy, so it's ok.
