> Should we start a whole new thread about "closest to right" v. "what I like," or
> should we continue (apologies) to high jack this one, or
> should I just go to bed?
Well, nearly all of the decorated survey maps one sees fall into the category of Folk Art, with high-tech kitsch overtones. There are also paintings like that and one recognizes them immediately. The point is that if a surveyor can separate his or her urge to be merely decorative from the real purpose of the work, the better it is for all concerned. Do we really think Grandma Moses would have made a good land surveyor?
Kent art comes in any form. As an artist you should know that.
To say when it's art and when it's not, is not your decision and doing so is conceited.
I don't consider the information on my plats art. How I show it and attempt to make it aesthetically pleasing is the art. That is the part that is unique that came from me. Or as the world calls it, art.
Yes it is easier than when we hand drafted. But the crux of it is the same. Art.
Art comes from the mind not the stroke of a brush. One could argue your paintings are nothing more than colored maps. You created them from a photo. The art in your paintings is what you interpreted the photo should look like.
Look at the online library of congress at some of the art in the American Memory maps collection. There are some awesome maps of art to look at.
If you look at this just right it starts looking good
as far as a decorated map...
:'(
> To say when it's art and when it's not, is not your decision and doing so is conceited.
Not really. It's just knowing the difference.
> I don't consider the information on my plats art. How I show it and attempt to make it aesthetically pleasing is the art. That is the part that is unique that came from me. Or as the world calls it, art.
No, that's called "decoration". Folk art tends to be intended as a purely decorative form, which is why I think most of the "artistic" maps that surveyors generate in CAD are better classed as high-tech folk art. They have no overarching design other than to make something pretty, usually on the theory that the actual information of the map is insufficient or inherently uninteresting. To me, that's either naive or just weird.
Kent there is also an art to admitting when you are wrong.
You are not that kind of artist though. 😉
I was all set to be hopelessly confused by the North Arrow, but then I couldn't find one!
Dang, Roxie, I always knew there was something about you that just ain't right, now you go and prove it.
Those strange videos you keep sending me should have been a clue, I guess.
Don
> Kent there is also an art to admitting when you are wrong.
Well, the whole point of this discussion is that the sort of Folk Art decoration some surveyors favor gets in the way of presenting survey information on the maps we are supposed to use to communicate our findings to clients.
The elaborately overblown North arrow was one example of the decorative impulse gone haywire. My point was merely that a surveyor who feels himself wanting survey maps to become "art" ought to just get the paints out and go to it and let his maps be what they are intended to be: a medium for conveying information, often accompanied by separate writings.
This is a tricky one.
I think it's entirely possible to have a survey plan that qualifies as art, while having been created by following the principles of good communication and clarity.
I don't think you're against art as a component of survey plans Kent. I think you're an opponent of "survey plans where the embellishments have gone too far and have diminished the clarity of the plan." I'm not sure there's a word for that though.
It is entirely possible to have a horrible plan, over-embellished and nasty, that fails as both a plan and as art. 😀
What just happened?
> This is a tricky one.
>
> I think it's entirely possible to have a survey plan that qualifies as art, while having been created by following the principles of good communication and clarity.
I think the better term is graphic design. I don't consider graphic design to be art per se and I don't think that most graphic designers think of themselves as artists since it is usually a practical endeavor with a definite purpose.
> I don't think you're against art as a component of survey plans Kent. I think you're an opponent of "survey plans where the embellishments have gone too far and have diminished the clarity of the plan." I'm not sure there's a word for that though.
If you substitute the term "graphic design" for "art", I think the statement is obviously true. Graphic design is typically about communication. While some graphic design may have decorative components, unless it carries the message, it fails as a design.
The survey map is a rather formal problem in graphic design since there is normally a heirarchy of information to be conveyed to the viewer, i.e. what one finds and understands first, second, and so on. Eliminating meaningless clutter and giving a map a logical graphical organization is an important part of the design.
It is a gratification to me to know that I am ignorant ...
>>Well, nearly all of the decorated survey maps one sees fall into the category of Folk Art, with high-tech kitsch overtones. There are also paintings like that and one recognizes blah blah blah blah blah blah
I've got to side with Twain on this one
"It is a gratification to me to know that I am ignorant of art, and ignorant also of surgery. Because people who understand art find nothing in pictures but blemishes, and surgeons and anatomists see no beautiful women in all their lives, but only a ghastly stack of bones with Latin names to them, and a network of nerves and muscles and tissues."
Maynard Dixon
Kent, your paintings are excellent. Thanks for posting them. Maynard Dixon is perhaps my favorite artist, especially in terms of the American Southwest and early California.
Your paintings of the windmill and sky, and the view of silver mine in Presidio County immediately brought Maynard Dixon to mind. I have several Dixon prints framed and mounted in my home and I enjoy them every day.
For those who might be unfamiliar with Maynard Dixon, he was a very interesting character and led a fascinating life. There are several good websites available which showcase his work. Here is one:
Thanks again Kent. Keep your vision of those wide open spaces alive.
Maynard Dixon
> Maynard Dixon is perhaps my favorite artist, especially in terms of the American Southwest and early California.
> Your paintings of the windmill and sky, and the view of silver mine in Presidio County immediately brought Maynard Dixon to mind. I have several Dixon prints framed and mounted in my home and I enjoy them every day.
>
> For those who might be unfamiliar with Maynard Dixon, he was a very interesting character and led a fascinating life.
Yes, there have been at least a couple of coffee table books about Maynard Dixon's work published. I only have one. So far, I've only seen two of his canvases in person - and neither was a major work - but both really had captured the West: the light, the sense of boundless space, and the spirit of the place. Sometime when I get a chance, I'll have to see which other museums in Texas have some more Dixons. Some university in Utah has an ungodly number, but I doubt they're all on exhibit and, in any event, it's Utah, a state too far.
Here are a couple more. This first is a building in Sanderson, pretty much the only town in Terrell County, large one in West Texas. Terrell is the first West of the Pecos River along the Rio Grande. I've spent a fair amount of time in Sanderson over the years and have watched it basically succumb to circumstances just as this building has.
On the subject of small town Texas, here's a theater in Ballinger in Runnels County where I spent some time a couple of years ago when I was working on finding the corner with the mesquite bearing tree in the painting I posted above.
And of course there are more windmills, this one on a ranch where I drove past it every day for weeks, waiting for the right light or sky or something. I believe it's the only windmill I've ever seen with a device to allow a person to drive it with a gasoline engine if the wind isn't good enough. You'll note that I've edited out the wind bracing and a few other necessary details to pare down the form of the windmill to the basic mandala.
For those who want another point of view.....
Come to Kansas City
For those who want another point of view.....
>
I trust you realize that work seen in the image above is a painting by the artist Joyce Kozloff entitled "Targets", right? If you look at the places shown in the painted maps, you get an idea of why the artist selected the bits of maps to paint that she did.
Per the museum website:
>Inspired by the best-selling book The Map as Art, this exhibition presents artworks that explore issues of mapping—whether conceptually or quite literally—while also examining the personal gesture involved in large-scale works. The exhibition features works by Ingrid Calame, Nathan Carter, Tiffany Chung, Joyce Kozloff, Lordy Rodriguez, Robert Walden, and Heidi Whitman.
For those who want another point of view.....
I always had a fascination with Robert Smithson..and also a connection with his Monuments of Passaic NJ where he took familar scenes of my youth along the Passaic River and my neighborhood and presented them as "Art"
well anyway, I got to get back to making origami Christmas tree ornaments of some copies of survey plats that I have around. Yo Ho Ho 😉
Mapping Dislocations and Non- Sites
On the occasion of this exhibition we have published a fully illustrated catalogue titled Robert Smithson: Mapping Dislocations, which will include an interview with Robert Smithson and an essay by Ann Reynolds, Associate Professor of art history at the University of Texas at Austin.
For those who want another point of view.....
I have actually been to the exhibit and stood inside the globe about where the subject in the picture is. BTW I own the book.
It is a gratification to me to know that I am ignorant ...
:good: :stakeout: :good:
Thanks Don. The north arrow came from another surveyor, and I modified it, to reflect what I was doing.
N
> Thanks Don. The north arrow came from another surveyor, and I modified it, to reflect what I was doing.
> N
Would that be the 'Foster Fin'?
I've always liked the 'Gorton Bob'...
Gene Gorton Plat
DDSM:-D
