Working for yourself or for someone else?

MD Surveyor, post: 336517, member: 10081 wrote: So, my question for you guys that have went solo or started a business is this: Was there anything that you missed, didn't consider, or that surprised you (negative or positive) when you made the jump and started working for yourself?

Not for me, I dove in head first and have never looked back. There is no way one can anticipate business "surprises".
If you feel all your ducks are in a row (not R/W ;-)) go for it.

Best wishes for your success!

Nope, no looking back for me and it's been 13 years now. Save for those rainy days, however, last winter was tough not being able to work for 6 weeks straight! I was unprepared for that episode.

I've never actually worked for a survey "company." I certainly wouldn't want someone breathing down my neck all day making sure that I account for every inch of ribbon and every MAG nail I used.

Winter is the worst time of year for us owners (and our helpers).

MD Surveyor, post: 336517, member: 10081 wrote: Was there anything that you missed, didn't consider, or that surprised you (negative or positive) when you made the jump and started working for yourself?

What jumps out for me here is that you're not considering going to work for yourself, you're looking at going to work for a partnership. There's a huge difference. In a sense, you're trying to decide whether or not to marry this guy (note to Kim Davis: not literally, don't panic). To my way of thinking, the biggest unknown in your situation is the dynamic of that relationship, and your ability to predict its future.

I would avoid any partnership. start your own business and be his surveyor.

Divvying up the technical workload is pretty obvious. Who is going to handle the day to day stuff like payroll, meeting with accountants, paying the electric bill and the rent, shopping for insurance, buying new computers and software, etc. etc.? In a partnership these little divisions are really important. We tend not to think of them until too late.

Some random thoughts:
If you decide to go into a partnership, and this can't be stressed strongly enough, put everything and I mean everything in writing. Right down to who buys the office coffee. Meet once a month and review how things are going. It only takes a few minutes to revise your agreement.
As things evolve and change, and they will, put those new things in writing. There will come a time when you have a conversation that goes a little something like this:
"I thought the engineering billings would pay for...". If it's in writing, it's not a problem. If not, it's a tough talk and can only lead to hurt feelings. I've seen best friends go down this road who no longer can be in the same room. When you or your partner start to assume things, those assumptions have a tendency to morph into unilateral "understandings". Tax time can be a real test of this.
Keep things clear.
Get a good accountant. Not a bookkeeper. Prefferably an Enrolled Agent. CPA at the minimum.
Figure out a good retirement plan using a pay-for-service planner and work like a maniac to service that plan, you're going to need it. Your goal is not to have the most plats on file, it is to walk away one day knowing you have done your best as a professional, and have earned, and deserved a comfortable retirement.
Won't hurt to read "Why Most Small Businesses Fail and What to do About It" by Michael Gerber no matter which way you go.

MD Surveyor, post: 336517, member: 10081 wrote: ....So, my question for you guys that have went solo or started a business is this: Was there anything that you missed, didn't consider, or that surprised you (negative or positive) when you made the jump and started working for yourself?

I know its a broad question but I welcome any answer at all that comes to mind.

One thing I noticed thirty years ago when I established myself as my own employer: Once you're there, it is difficult to return to your own employment by others. Nobody wanted to hire a licensed surveyor that had the knowledge, means or desire to operate professionally by themselves. I'm assuming the reasoning was the fear you might move in and then leave again with a pocketful of clients. Maybe that was just a local thing, I don't know.

I missed a lot of things, I'm sure. I've often told folks, "If you're tired of working 40 hours a week for somebody else, invest $100K and jump out on your own. You will quickly double your hours and cut your income in half."

While that is in itself is not really true, it is an indication of what you may feel like at times. But would I do it again? Absolutely...and sooner if I had the opportunity. Would not trade my experiences for the world. Good luck.

A partnership is much like a marriage. Both parties are happiest when screwing someone else.

What jumps out for me here is that you're not considering going to work for yourself, you're looking at going to work for a partnership. There's a huge difference. In a sense, you're trying to decide whether or not to marry this guy (note to Kim Davis: not literally, don't panic). To my way of thinking, the biggest unknown in your situation is the dynamic of that relationship, and your ability to predict its future.

I agree with this Jim, That has been my biggest worry about this situation. I truly believe I can work with this guy but I also understand that everyone thinks that right up until the point that they can't.

We are just now starting to put all of our conversations in writing, several people here have brought up good points that I will consider as we finalize the agreement. Luckily, I have two family members that are CPA's and lawyers so I am going to make sure the agreement is heavily scrutinized by them.

I am just at a point in my career where I would love to actually be a surveyor again, instead of a paper pusher and a babysitter. I am not at a point in my life where I can take the chance and go completely solo (too many mouths to feed at home) but this opportunity intrigues me because the company is already starting to become established, (I have always heard the first two years are the toughest) and this guys strengths really fit well with my weaknesses and vice versa.

I really appreciate the advice guys and will probably ask some more specific questions as this process moves forward. Thanks

Our opinions are worth every dollar you paid to get them. Maybe more.

Isn't this a fantastic resource? Wendell and Angel deserve a plaque and a wall to hang it on.

Two surveyors in this area partnered up and one runs an office in one location and the other in another location. From what I understand they basically each have their own business but carry the same name to make it look like a larger company I guess.

I don't know how they handle the finances though. But I'd guess they have to make their own dinner money and not pull from the other branch.

I like working for myself. I only have me to blame if something goes wrong and I get all the praise (which I give myself) when things go right. I can say it's a lot different than going to an office full of people that you like or don't like. You are alone and have to get used to it and be self motivated or you will sit in front of the TV and never get anything done.

As far as having a partner. I don't like the idea unless it was set up something like what I explained above.

mattharnett, post: 336535, member: 6458 wrote: I've never actually worked for a survey "company." I certainly wouldn't want someone breathing down my neck all day making sure that I account for every inch of ribbon and every MAG nail I used.

Winter is the worst time of year for us owners (and our helpers).

We often joke when a 60d is bent by hard ground, Jerry Brown is going to want an explanation of that one. I was able to use one of the bent ones so I said Jerry will be proud of me, I saved money!

Partners are for dancin' only.

I've seen partnerships that worked out very well, and some that didn't. I have to agree with the advice that you need to get details worked out in writing.

I worked for a firm that, as the story goes, one partner was on his own for years and never making a lot of money, later he brought in his brother-in-law as a partner who was an engineer who minored in business @ college. The partner made the company start making money and got the clients to pay their bills, and the original surveyor was able to keep doing what he loved to do. The surveying side of the business didn't make a lot of profit, but often brought in the engineering work that made them the big bucks.

I personally would never and I mean never be in a partnership. For everyone that succeeds there are probably a dozen that don't.

There are just way to many things that can cause conflicts. You also have to worry about the three D's. Drugs, Death, Divorce. What happens if your partner goes off the deep end and gets on drugs? Not likely I know but what if he dies and now you are partners with his wife? What if he gets divorced and his vindictive ex now owns 25% of your company? What if he wants to bring his his douchebag son to work and he is useless? What happens when work gets slow and fingers start getting pointed about who is doing all the work and who is spending the money? What if? What if? What if?

The best solution would be for you to form your own surveying company owned 100% by you and then you guys do joint ventures on projects.