valuing a survey firm

> I'm not really interested in equipment value as it is nothing special. I am however interested in how to appraise the worth of the instruments involved.

Those two sentences seem contradictory to me. You're not interested in equipment value, but you want to know how to determine the value of the equipment? Can you clarify?

I believe when he want to know how to value the instruments, he's refering to paper records.

"Instruments" Meaning The Maps

For someone to want to buy them, they must get value back. In the past some have advertised "Records of John Doe, PLS". Then for a minor research and copying fee they may be able to at least recover the cost of storage. If they are smart they would use them only as reference material recovering all corners, property and building. That might reduce the time on a job by 1/2 hour and barely covers the other half of the storage filing cost.

I am aware of a local surveyor who provided a third surveyor with a map of a predescesor. That third surveyor took that map as gospel and gross errors resulted. In turn he sued the map providing. The map providing surveyor won, but at great financial cost.

Find someone you trust and see if he will accept them at no cost to keep your legacy alive, if you can. I would say the value is less than the cost of the receiving party to move and index them.

Now if you had very professional and unambiguous filing system and had scanned them all, you could expect the cost of the CDs in return.

Paul in PA

The only value to a potential buyer of a firm (and it's records, equipment, fixtures, etc.)lies in the future operating cash flow for the new owner.

It would depend on if you are in a filing state or not. Some records are priceless but most within a recording state don't provide much useful data that is not already in the record. If the records are something that you know have some useful data that will help pay for itself, there would be some marketable value. I have known of surveyors who buy the records of retired or deceased surveyors just to keep others from getting them, in those cases it was the records of very old surveyors who did a lot of their work without recording. Some buy the records for themselves and others to use and have found that there is little in them worth the money payed, especially if the majority of the work was done after almost all surveyors were in compliance with the recording laws, believe it was 1947 when that was passed here. When it is time I will be having a large paper fire, equipment will be put on a shelf in the shop and the doors will quietly close. Be no worrying if I was payed to little or to much for anything and if I want to drag out the tools for my own use or to help someone, it will be there to use.
jud

Sorry, records are paper and digital copies. By insturment I meant gps, total stations, and plotters etc. It is in a recording state so I think it devalues the records as much as the economy.

If you had an email address I would send you the #1 secret to buying out a survey firm. Alas, no email address in your profile so I guess the secret stays with me.

Hit me up if you want my take.

75K X 40% = 30K.

Gene

> 75K X 40% = 30K.

You forgot the last part
(75K x 40%)x3 = 90K

Try not to buy the liability for the maps/records. 😉

I could have sworn I enabled email in my profile. Its all updated now.

Sometimes the phone number is worth more than the records. Depending on the rep of the company and how long they've been doing business with the same number. If you can find it in a 1956 phonebook as KLondike 5-5555, then maybe some residual business.

We purchased the records of two firms within the last three years. Each offer to purchase stated that we were obtaining paper file and cad files only and not purchasing the "business". We did not want the firm's liability. We placed an equally high value on the field notes and the finished signed and sealed surveys.

You may wish to consider the time and effort to organize the records as part of the purchase offer. One firm filed by old customer name (uggh). We file by legal description so it took a ton of hours to convert their old system to ours. We scanned and hyperlinked to a GIS database. Lot of time up front, but it makes document retrieval a snap. Good Luck. -Matt

Can you please explain the value you expect to receive from these records? How do you plan to recover your investment and make money on them.

I guess I must be missing something because I son't see the big value, you still have to resurvey the property.

We find it extremely helpful to review the ties to old monumentation, application of surplus or shortage, old occupation and the professional opinion of the prior surveyor. This data helps our estimating of fee and directs the field reconnaissance.

Our firm has acquired the records of eight firms dating to 1831 and we often find the same parcel has been surveyed more than once by the different firms. There is value in seeing where surveyors have disagreed as much when they are in lock step agreement. We have also identified a number of locations that were re-monumented incorrectly by a paving contractor or a sloppy job by a city / county crew back in the day.

I am sure that every geographic area has the "surveyor who did great work" and also the "rat b*strd" who wasn't worth a damn. That guy that would not review adjacent deeds, dig up stones or keep his instrument calibrated. So how do you know which surveyor set that 3/4" rusty pipe that you just dug up?

All of this data helps limit our liability, allows for quick turnaround in estimating and provides a valuable comparison to points found in the field today. We often receive work and recommendation based upon our historic records.

Some guys don't care what the "other guy" did. This guy wants to know.

Matt, are you in a non-recording state?

I'm in a recording state and just don't see the value of the records when I can go online and pull previous surveys.

Ran my father's company for several years, which was 35 years old at the time he retired. The only value is the value in the clients sticking with the new owner. If that won't happen, then the dollars per year don't matter. Then you're left with only the value of your equipment.

I am not in a recording state...however most surveyors, (us included), will file with a couple of the adjacent counties as a courtesy. But we only file the finished survey and not the notes. I'm sure you've seen surveys that have a detailed boundary, but fail to show the monumentation used. The notes fill in those blanks.

Knowledge is power - Matt

Gene

I didn't forget. 30K