Using a boundary completed by others

If you use it, you own it.

1. You have to satisfy yourself that you agree with the boundary depicted by the other surveyor. You're entitled to be paid for what it takes to be satisfied.

2. I'd want a complete explanation why the other surveyor can't do the platting. Maybe I wouldn't want this client after getting the explanation.

As my wife likes to tell the kids - don't borrow trouble. You'll earn plenty on your own.

I have been in this situation several times due to a multitude of fast moving real estate, dead surveyors, cheap-skate clients and property that has lain fallow for a number of years due to economic conditions.?ÿ Like Tim V. says:?ÿ If you use it, you own it.?ÿ Maybe you can use the original boundary, maybe you can't.

But that doesn't necessarily indicate that the original survey is junk.?ÿ Verification of a boundary is just part of the platting process, no matter which surveyor performed it originally.

Around here the biggest problem I've seen is clients that feel your fees for platting should be somewhat less since they have a recent survey.?ÿ I hope you explained your fees and the mechanics of the platting process to them.

This is easier if the survey you are following is a signed and sealed public record. As in a recording state.?ÿ But like Tim and Paden have said, you must verify.?ÿThat doesn't mean redoing the whole thing. And it doesn't mean quibbling over hundreths.?ÿ

I do this sort of thing fairly regularly. Some body does a boundary and topo. A building is designed -typically with zero, or near-zero, lot line setbacks. I'm hired to stake the building. I have to verify the boundary before staking. I tell the client that I'm "establishing control" for his project. Then I do what I must.?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ

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First off you have to meet with the prior surveyor, with or without the client. Make sure he is aware of the client's intentions. Find out if he is OK with it. It is your responsibility to ask if he has been paid in full. If not, ask why. Whatever he is still owed is a basis to figure out what you will be owed when you to are gone. Do not be afraid to ask what he will share as to his work. Personally I would be more interested in his field book data than his CAD file.

Sometimes you are happy to see clients go, I know I have been. Having worked hard to get it right, I would not want the next guy get it wrong, because that looks badly for me. So I have shared notes, field work books etc. However one client so aggravated me, that he got only what he had paid for and maps and data that was shared with me from other firms was returned 100% directly to those firms. As far as I can tell from observation they built that project completely per my Preliminary Approved Plans, except for the fence around the detention pond. He did not want to put in the fence as I designed it and that was where we separated. Not just that , he did not want to pay for a correct second survey because the survey that he paid for before was the surveyor who agreed to seal for the application did not agree with the Filed Map monuments on three sides. It took me a few years to pay off the surveyor that helped me figure out that mess. I was uncertain if there were problems from the beginning so all designed lots to have enough area allowance for irregularities. You should only learn the hard way once, if not at all.

Paul in PA

If there were non-boundary monument control points listed on the plans do you still verify the boundary in relation to the proposed building?  I think doing so is best practice from a liability standpoint but technically not necessary if the plans provide the control you are intended to base your layout on. 

Exactly right. A Surveyor here was retained to stake a building. He went off the plans and staked the building 0.5 foot into the setback which cost the contractor the cost of moving forms (fortunately it was caught before concrete). Contractor said pay up, LS said nope boundary not in contract, board said pay up if you want to keep your license. LS is responsible for verifying boundary location.

A Subdivision Plat costs X number of dollars, pre-existing boundary or not.

Talking to car salesman, how much for the Barn Burner 1000? $50,000! But I just bought new tires for my existing car, how much now? Car salesman, still $50,000.

I'm curious about the necessity to ask the prior surveyor anything.  How far back does this responsibility extend?  If someone had a boundary survey done 10 years ago and then comes to me today to plat it I wouldn't think about tracking down the guy from 10 years ago to see if he's "OK with it" or to make sure he had been paid.  The person I would be working for might not even be the same owner as the one from 10 years ago. 

I have worked for Surveyors on both ends of the spectrum, some will want to start from scratch every time and others (far fewer) are fine starting and stopping with the subject parcel corners.?ÿ?ÿ

I was shocked the first time I staked a subdivision off the lot corners only but have come to appreciate it more with time. It is of course a professional call that should be made in balance, neither approach is correct 100% of the time.?ÿ

I can dig the clients point of view, what is the point of having a survey done if they are not durable instruments.?ÿ

Posted by: party chef

I can dig the clients point of view, what is the point of having a survey done if they are not durable instruments.?ÿ

You need to remind them that their doctor doesn't guarantee their physical exam will remain correct forever, either.

I was asked to plat a piece of property using a previous boundary (2018) that was done for the seller of the tract. I don't have a problem with that, but I've shot in all the monuments and hit them all within a few hundreths. I proceeded to pull the adjoiners and the right-of-way deed, as they were missing from the other previous survey. Found out that the right-of-way the other surveyor called as 90 feet is actually 80 feet and at the north boundary/section line it drops to 60 feet. He held the 60' row marker and enclosed 10 feet of right-of-way within the limits of the survey. Had to tell client we were short a few thousand square feet and had to redesign the front tier of lots. I'll use someone else's boundary but I'll darn sure check the work before holding it.

I wonder how that would shake out in a state that doesn't include construction staking under the regulation of Licensed Land Surveyors.   

I have been on both sides of this scenario.?ÿ Some good, some bad.?ÿ It really doesn't matter if xyz surveyor completed a recorded survey of the exterior of the subdivision.?ÿ If you are preparing a subdivision you are responsible for everything shown on your map. I will always conduct a survey of the boundary (how can you not?).?ÿ?ÿ

Following another surveyor all expectations fall on their reputation.

From there you do your survey as usual and tie in all the appropriate monuments around the property and the others necessary to prove their worth.

good luck

I would be extremely unhappy with a scenario like that.  Obviously the siteplan was incorrect if a building was designed by professionals to be built in those locations a without proving it to be viable.  It sounds more like a plan than a design.  "build the building in accordance with current zoning ordinances" . This places all of the design parameters regarding location on the construction surveyor which is not were it should be placed.

I agree, I wouldn't contact the other surveyor unless you found a problem.?ÿ Like others have said, make sure you are good with the others guys boundary and go from there.

That's a hypothetical since it has never happened. But, yes. I would be verifying that, too.   

Regarding the OP, I think that the current surveyor needs to explain, if they dare, that a boundary survey is a professional opinion as where the boundary is. If it is marked and filed of record, fine that helps in retracement but nevertheless I know of few surveyors who would "accept" without verification someone's data or work; I wouldn't. It is never too early to establish your credibility or discover a blunder.?ÿ

As far as contacting the surveyor of record. My policy is that I do it the work was recently (a year or two) and certainly done for the same client.?ÿ One also should contact said surveyor if you think that they have useful information that would not normally be available to me. Besides, I find that a chat with Brand X every so often helps us both. War story. I once received a sizable check from an unknown source because they took over a project that I had worked on several years earlier and didn't get paid because the client skipped town. The reason I got the money was because Brand X, recommended that they do so. Karma, and there are good people out there, you just need to talk to them.?ÿ

Construction staking or boundary surveying, when the surveyor has to locate the construction locations in relation to a boundary, they best have a boundary license or else use the existing onsite construction control.