@csk21 I have seen it done both ways, some just the boundary of the tract being surveyed and others for all the ties that are needed.?ÿ The surveyors that don't charge for the additional ties say they don't want to have to justify to the client all the ties that they thought were necessary.
You should take into account everything said here. Don??t lowball or reduce your fee just because you think you know?ÿwhat the client expects to pay. Determine the work that needs to be performed (your scope) then estimate how long it will take you to get it done. Multiply those hours or days by what you consider your time is worth. But don??t lowball it. Especially if this is a part time gig for you right now. You don??t want to build a clientele full of people that expect you to lowball every job. You have a source of income. So price it like you don??t need the work but also reasonably. And don??t forget how busy everyone is right now. Your ability to deliver may be what gets you the job over someone else??s price.?ÿ
@murphy?ÿ
Yeah, unfortunately it's in a rural coastal county.?ÿ My game plan, as it stands now, is to visit the site and quote him a fixed price for the job. (One that will be equitable, yet profitable).?ÿ If it's too steep for him, I will give him my hourly rate.?ÿ ?ÿI guess the beauty here is that they are, in fact, the same.?ÿ My fixed price is simply the time I envision the project taking multiplied by my rate.?ÿ (with a cushion for the unforeseen things that pop up on every project)
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THRAC ALERT (MAYBE)
I'm learning tons reading the posts like this for when I'm eventually either solely licensed and self employed or still working with a large team. The knowledge base here is awesome.
I worked for a while in electronics repair (pro audio for the ones that care) and the mad scientist guy I worked with was esoteric weird and at times emotionally unstable. But he was good. Really good.
So good in fact the people who came to him knew that he was THE GUY that could fix it. Even after balking at his estimate, then going elsewhere to have someone else not fix their gear, and in some cases do more damage or render things inop...
Whenever we got things that had been worked on by other people, he would usually decline the work or charge double.
Seems like if Surveyor's are doing good work, they never have to bow down to low expectations and substandard pay rates, and maybe just hold the line.
No one bats an eye when the title insurance folks keep rubber stamping policies for everything under the sun.(there's that THRAC potential...)
I think the biggest thing is simply seeing the site.?ÿ I'm usually far more worried about nightmare field conditions like trees and junk piles than a records mess.?ÿ Anyway, a linear foot formula seems way too arbitrary; your rate x time seems the best way to go to me.
Most importantly- what is the scope of the work? You said you were going to subdivide 33 acres from a 133 acre tract. Then you said your linear footage to survey was 7,000 feet. I??d think about that a little bit if I were you.?ÿ
We??re in close enough proximity I probably know exactly what you are dealing with. I surveyed thousands of ?ÿacres of Weyerhauser land right out of school in the late 80??s (Craven, Pamlico, Carteret, Onslow, and Pender Counties). The late summer yellow flies nearly made me give up on surveying. Everything else I could deal with. But those damn yellow flies. I still hate them.?ÿ
I never lost money on a job I didn't get...
I price smaller jobs by the linear foot although at a higher rate than you. On larger jobs like you are talking about I price them by figuring out the boundary length and then figuring out how many feet a day I can traverse. Divide the length of the boundary by the traverse distance and you have your days required. Now multiply that by your daily rate and use that. Now unless the job is close by make sure to factor in your drive time as well. I also add on $500 per lot for subdivisions, now you may want to tack on more than that for something this size, unless you can literally get away with setting just one pin. I do not make a profit off of any county fees for jobs like yours but I do add them into the price as a pass through cost.?ÿ
I think you are in the right ball park.?ÿ In a perfect world of wide open space with existing monumentation I would price it at $500 for the first acre and add $250 for each additional acre.?ÿ That comes in at $8,500 and we all no there is no perfect world where what the client says becomes reality.?ÿ If somebody else want's to do it cheaper, walk away and let them do it.
I would recommend fixed price with fixed scope.?ÿ Signed contract, with at least 25% retainer.?ÿ If he decides to ask for more work, great--price goes up and he signs a contract amendment/work order.?ÿ
Don't let him price pressure you.?ÿ As a contractor friend of mine says "I bid 'em happy-happy.?ÿ Happy if I get 'em.?ÿ Happy if I don't."?ÿ I think that's good advice.
I would caution against T&E with a not-to-exceed (NTE).?ÿ Unless your NTE is really high, that only protects the client, and stands a real chance of screwing you.?ÿ?ÿ
This is the best answer!
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This is what I was trying to hint at. Your numbers appear to apply only to the smaller tract to be subdivided from the larger tract. The same is true for the OP. How can he subdivide the parent tract without surveying the parent tract?
A hard NO on NTE. You take all the risk in that scenario.
Fixed Fee arrangements are good if the fixed fee is big enough. And when people ask for an NTE number they usually mean fixed fee. The two are not synonymous.
T&M (aka T&E) put the risk on the client, and so is not often a winning approach for price shoppers.
In the end there is no replacement for accurately estimating the job and holding your ground for fair compensation.
Met with a client today who has built up a successful business in the trenching business for all sorts of pipe lines. He wants to cut his house (Probably $500,000 range in a very low-priced area) from his business site and another 60 acres of cropland.?ÿ Weeks ago when we spoke on the telephone he asked what I thought it might take to do this for him.?ÿ I tossed out a range of what it might be.?ÿ He said no problem, get to it as soon as it works into your schedule.?ÿ Today we strolled around the property that he was guessing as three acres but if it's four or five acres, that's fine too.
BTW, the metal building that goes with his house is where he stores his helicopter.?ÿ He's planning to move it to his second home in Florida to commute back to the middle of God's Country as he needs to to supervise any projects his superintendents need help with.
He started with nothing but an old, piece-o-crap backhoe.?ÿ I would say his business savvy has worked well for him.?ÿ Trying to nitpick prices on a survey isn't worth it.
It's easy to err on the wrong side on jobs by assuming things will be normal or better.?ÿ I'm reminded of a job where one corner of what was a simple one lot survey turned out to be a giant PITA.?ÿ The adjoiner had stacked several hundred concrete blocks in what he assumed was the corner of his property, we moved about 150 blocks out of the way before finally getting to ground level in the area we hoped to find an existing bar.?ÿ Found it.?ÿ Restacked the blocks and documented where the corner was relative to the block stack on our plat.
@bushaxe?ÿ
That was the recent case with a recent summer survey I did that went to and intercoastal creek.?ÿ The flies were swarming.?ÿ It almost broke my 18 year old son ... but he's determined to be a surveyor.?ÿ?ÿ
Regardless of how you create your estimates, keep good records of the actual time spent on a project.?ÿ Whilst living in the information age, it's shocking how few surveyors acknowledge the value of data.?ÿ My 1.25 multiplier is based on analysis of my estimated time vs the actual completion time.?ÿ I should be capable of just adding more time to my estimates, but for some reason my delusional optimism gets the best of me each time, so whether I think I need it or not, I increase my estimate by 25%.?ÿ Whether you use a spreadsheet, database, or professional software, you will never regret the time spent keeping good business records.?ÿ?ÿ
@firestix Yep. Try dealing with yellow flies while turning angles manually. They would land on my freaking eyelids while dialing in the target. I would try to blow them off while continuing to site my targets but they would just sit right there. I had to scrape them off with my hands. Thats when I started wearing long sleeves throughout the summer. If I didn??t the yellow flies would eat my elbows up.?ÿ
Reading this back, I may have some deep rooted issues. ?????ÿ
One Summer we were hit with swarming gnats for weeks on end.?ÿ It was almost impossible to breathe without sucking in some of those vile critters.?ÿ Landing on the eyelashes while swarming between your eye and the instrument and another group swarming or landing on the far end of the scope was a constant issue.?ÿ That was 1994.?ÿ Never again have I experienced such a thing.?ÿ We were working along a six-mile stretch of road, so it was not unique to a specific little pond or stream area.
I ran a profile through about 660 feet, of a wooded draw, once; and when we pulled up, it looked like the woods were on fire. Nope, it was gnats; millions and millions of gnats...
Miserable day in the field, circa 1980