Tommy Young, post: 445746, member: 703 wrote: 95% my jobs take less than 30 minutes of research.
Wow, I can't imagine that, although I have never worked in your part of the state.
In Tennesee I always had to travel longer than 30 minutes just to look at the records.
aliquot, post: 445815, member: 2486 wrote: Wow, I can't imagine that, although I have never worked in your part of the state.
In Tennesee I always had to travel longer than 30 minutes just to look at the records.
Just about everywhere in the state has the deeds online for at least the last 50 years.
Tommy Young, post: 445835, member: 703 wrote: Just about everywhere in the state has the deeds online for at least the last 50 years.
I find that hard to believe.....Al Gore would have only been nineteen
Tommy Young, post: 445835, member: 703 wrote: Just about everywhere in the state has the deeds online for at least the last 50 years.
In Oregon & Washington I can call a title company and get them to send current vesting deeds and/or specific Book/Pages for free. A couple of times I have paid a couple hundred for some more in depth research. In 20 years I have been to an Oregon county records room maybe 3 times.
In Oklahoma you could get records on line for Oklahoma City (Canadian County) and Tulsa County. The other 97 counties were not online (there may have been some others on-line, but not many, but I didn't discover them). And these record room were sometime filled with dozens of oil patch "researchers". It was often an all day thing to do research.
Tommy Young, post: 445835, member: 703 wrote: Just about everywhere in the state has the deeds online for at least the last 50 years.
When I was there the only county that I worked in that online records was Knox. Most surveys required more than a 50 year search.
Mark Mayer, post: 445840, member: 424 wrote: In Oregon & Washington I can call a title company and get them to send current vesting deeds and/or specific Book/Pages for free. A couple of times I have paid a couple hundred for some more in depth research. In 20 years I have been to an Oregon county records room maybe 3 times.
In Oklahoma you could get records on line for Oklahoma City (Canadian County) and Tulsa County. The other 97 counties were not online (there may have been some others on-line, but not many, but I didn't discover them). And these record room were sometime filled with dozens of oil patch "researchers". It was often an all day thing to do research.
Sounds like the way it still is now. I have tried to pay a title company to do my research, but they made too many mistakes/ommisions for it to be worth it. I can see it being worthwhile if you have title companies that know what they are doing.
In Alaska every deed ever recorded is available on line for free. It's a great time saver, but even then research time of over 30 minutes is normal for me.
paden cash, post: 445294, member: 20 wrote: I don't have any answers, but I can offer what I've seen over (what is apparently) a long career.
I don't think anyone has ever been able to successfully "cultivate" progressive ranks in our profession. Plenty have tried and some achieve a minor amount of success. I have surveyed for 50 years and have probably only seen three or four of my own subordinate employees reach professional status.
The environment is rough. It is more like waiting for mushrooms to pop up than any sort of structured cultivation in rows. The economy, pay rates, working conditions and the employees themselves all play a part. Factors stretched out over years have to come together perfectly to see a young person make it all the way. And a great deal of that has to do with the "spore" itself. Those that stick with it can make a good living working at a career that is very enjoyable and rewarding. Sadly the majority of "good help" is lured away into some related field that has (at least) a more predictable environment.
So "How do we attract new talent?" I believe that is up to the talent and not the industry. It is a unique profession that has many interesting facets. If one doesn't see it as a passion and only sees it as a monetarily driven career, maybe they should go about their way. Maybe that is why the number of professional surveyors stays at a minimal level. There just aren't that many people willing to keep with it. The few that are willing to endure the rigors of pre-professional and subordinate work will probably do well.
And maybe, just maybe, that is how it should be.
Paden,
Great analogy, BUT it lends itself to the idea that Surveying is not a true profession, more like a Professional Trade where the Spores bloom at random and there is no real professional development for anyone entering the ranks of the shroom heads.
I don't disagree with your analogy, but it does give me concern that I am wasting effort in trying to develop talent and looking to the future.
Hourly vs. Fixed
Just to be clear, I don't think there is a one size fits all across the board. The point has been made that level of effort is the driving force to the pricing structure. HOWEVER, in our part of the world, few things are recorded, old plats/boundaries rarely maintained and it seems like I get burned more often than not, using the fixed price structure on even small boundaries.
For example, we had a survey for a good client of our in a small mill town, now defunct, whose latest plat was from 1905. Took the crew a day and a half to find monumentation that gave us the confidence to make a decision on the boundaries for a 100' x 185' lot. no pins in either direction for a least five lots. IF I had charged them the hourly rate it would have been 2000 plus with drafting and field work.
Construction staking is typically hourly plus drive time.
C.Tompkins, post: 445917, member: 975 wrote: Construction staking is typically hourly plus drive time.
Why, construction staking is the one aspect of surveying when you should be able to accurately determine how long the staking should take in the field. Which a fixed fee price can be determined with decent profit. I've done the hourly stake out plus travel and the only one to benefit was the contractor.
For example the prevailing hourly rate for a crew in my area is about $150 an hour and $75/hr calcs.
For a job a half hour away staking a building pad which at most takes an hour in the field and 15 min in office to calc, but charge 1hr min. I could only charge $300 at hourly rate to stake that pad. With fixed fee I charge a minimum of $600 to stake the pad. And $600 to restake if needed. Hourly rates on construction leaves to much money on the table.
I do all my own research and spend alot of time at the County Offices, mainly the Clerk and Recorder, but never seem to get everything on the first try. Many times I need to talk to adjacent land owners that live in the area. My preliminary survey usually takes 4-16 hours or more for larger parcels. If I find corners from other surveyors and don't find a recorded plat, I call or email the surveyor. Many times I have to go back and look for more corners and of course to set corners.
Only a couple of counties in this area have deeds online, but only from the nineties forward. The systems at the Clerk and Recorder usually are fair for research, but to research backwards, you still have to go to the Grantor, Grantee books, Most of the assessors sites do have a GIS system of some kind which have the more recent transactions. I use my knowledge of the area and the GIS to see features, trees and how many adjoiner's, then base my price accordingly. Surveys range from $1000-5000 but most surveys fall in the $1500 to $3500 range.
Funny thing is that I never run into other surveyors at the Clerk and Recorder.
There are several large 5 acre lot subdivisions in the area that are pretty well monumented, I charge $400 to recover corners and $1200 for a survey if it becomes necessary. Many of the lots are in wooded mountains but others are in the sage or pinon forest, about a 45 to 60 minute drive.
I stick to one price and it kind of averages out. I get mixed responses from potential clients, some think the price is outrageous and some don't blink an eye.
billvhill, post: 445990, member: 8398 wrote: I charge $400 to recover corners.
Don't do it!!!! That's not surveying!!!!
Ron Lang, post: 445978, member: 6445 wrote: Why, construction staking is the one aspect of surveying when you should be able to accurately determine how long the staking should take in the field. Which a fixed fee price can be determined with decent profit. I've done the hourly stake out plus travel and the only one to benefit was the contractor.
For example the prevailing hourly rate for a crew in my area is about $150 an hour and $75/hr calcs.
For a job a half hour away staking a building pad which at most takes an hour in the field and 15 min in office to calc, but charge 1hr min. I could only charge $300 at hourly rate to stake that pad. With fixed fee I charge a minimum of $600 to stake the pad. And $600 to restake if needed. Hourly rates on construction leaves to much money on the table.
I charge hourly because things always go wrong and the extra charge has a reason.
Engineering plans seem to be more of a building permit requirement than an actual design and therefore they often change or are just plain wrong.
I give estimates knowing full well they will likely go up due to conditions.
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Ric Moore, post: 445240, member: 731 wrote: I can see general members of the public reading this thread and passing it along to their legislators in those 23 states that are currently under Governor Executive Orders to suspend all regulation efforts until each licensing board can justify their existence and why the state should not just eliminate the licensing requirements.
Out of curiosity, Ric, which states are those? Maybe others know but I do not.
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Arizona, Oklahoma, New Hampshire,...those are the ones right off that I can recall talking directly with. I'd have to check on other names that raised their hands
Lot of rants in this thread, but wasn't the OP just asking for some numbers, not a debate of what other's charge? You can't compare fees from one state to the next. For example, a crappy 2 bedroom apartment here in SOcal is upwards of $1,750 a month. Our taxes are almost the highest all around. I pay $ 250/ yr just to register my 2003 GMC truck. It's outrageous. Saying that, most 2 man crews around these parts are $ 200/ hr, and 1 man about $ 145 an hr. The typical rectangle lot needing a corner or 2 re-established and reset runs about $ 2,500 simply due to the field time and rigorous plan check the county imposes which typically go back and forth at least one time. We get a lot of asbuilt topos for the wealthy that want to remod their ocean view home that is already perfect. Those can take up to 3 days to complete on field if they have Disneyland going on with ret wall, fountains, planters, mulit level FF's, outside boundary, recon, etc. So 205 x ( lets say 2 days) 16= $3,280 just for field, then another 10-16 hrs to draft @ 90/hr.....A topo can be 5k easy here. So where we seem expensive here, it's relative to the cost of living in these parts.
