Tommy Young, post: 444471, member: 703 wrote: Generally speaking, lot surveys are $700 and 5 acre tracts run about $1000.
You're kidding, right?
Jim in AZ, post: 444567, member: 249 wrote: You're kidding, right?
He charges 30% less if they only need "one line"
Jim in AZ, post: 444567, member: 249 wrote: You're kidding, right?
I doubt it. In a lot of these places you can buy the land outright for $5k or less.
Until some of you work in West Tennessee, I'd advise you to keep your mouth shut. I don't accuse you of running an operation ripping off consumers.
Tommy Young, post: 444591, member: 703 wrote: Until some of you work in West Tennessee, I'd advise you to keep your mouth shut. I don't accuse you of running an operation ripping off consumers.
In my part of the country, the older surveyors have conditioned the community that $250 for a lot survey is a fair price, hence when I tell the client that my minimum is 625 for just about anything out in the field they look at me cross eyed.
One of the main reasons for this is to figure out a way to gently up prices so I can then afford to keep the good help I have, otherwise the future of surveying is in the hands of meth addicted cheap surveyor working to feed his addiction. Now if think that is an a-hole thing to say, you are right, I'm not trying to mock or degrade struggling addicts, but I see it all too often. Meth head crews with white trash tribal tattoe sleeves. I mean get tattoes worth looking at, not barb wire for crying out loud. At least them a conversation piece and I love tattoes.
Rant off.
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@ Tommy Young
I can understand your point of view with that being the custom of your local area.
With your experience and background, you can do that where you are.
There is always that call that I can do a deal and quick turn around because I've already done most of it already.
I know of a few that are in the same ballpark, except around here they are hard to follow and I do not like to come across their work because it increases my job to check what they have done in addition to what I am attempting.
It is not uncommon to go to a job and find monuments on both sides of a crosstie fence corner.
There are two because they were surveying property on one side 5 yrs ago and on the other side 1 yr ago and the original deed called for a stake by a fence corner.
Sometimes one of them has been there for a hundred years and they simply looked on one side of the fence and by habit set the new corner at the intersection of the wires or at an eyeball location so it could be seen from the instrument, who really knows.
Also, 10 years ago I am sure that I was able to get twice as much done in the same amount of time for it to get done today.
There are not that many places around here that I can find things according to what was described in the last deed.
Being able to do that makes a whole world of difference.
0.02
Tommy Young, post: 444471, member: 703 wrote: Generally speaking, lot surveys are $700 and 5 acre tracts run about $1000.
How do you afford to leave the office.
I have a mission impossible right now. We looked at it 10 years ago and told them to make a boundary agreement. They cannot see eye to eye and one party put up 10k for hourly research which is not guaranteed to be successful.
No fee is ever too great.
VA LS 2867, post: 444493, member: 1444 wrote: This one is simple. You, as the professional, are to price your job based on what you think it will take to get the job done. If you miss your mark and have more time in it, unless you are billing hourly, you take your lumps and eat the added cost. I usually will look at a project and if there is something sketchy with it, the fee gets bumped up for contingencies.
As a professional why are we setting a lump sum fixed rate price? No attorney sets a fixed price for their services and how would we miss the mark in pricing? I think most of us have the experience and know how to estimate a job correctly. Now I will admit that sometimes I do miss whay I thought was the tune frame, but typically we are pretty close.
My thought is to get away from the fixed price mentality and gear more towards the hourly charge. To me that makes the most sense, you have a fixed price going out in labor, rent, utilities (sometimes known amount) and supplies. It's impossible to nail down the exact amount of hours each job will take, my point is we... that means me...all to often have a fear of "overcharging" yet other professionals dont seem to be shy about their rates. Maybe that's just my perception, but that's one of the reasons for this post.
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Mark Mayer, post: 444589, member: 424 wrote: I doubt it. In a lot of these places you can buy the land outright for $5k or less.
I just bought 43 acres of rolling property with about half in pasture, and a 36x48x20 tall insulated metal building with a concrete floor for less than $3k per acre, and it's 14 minutes from the courthouse of the second largest city in West Tennessee.
No one from the west coast, or Massachusetts, has any understanding of the cost of things down here.
C.Tompkins, post: 444594, member: 975 wrote: In my part of the country, the older surveyors have conditioned the community that $250 for a lot survey is a fair price, hence when I tell the client that my minimum is 625 for just about anything out in the field they look at me cross eyed.
One of the main reasons for this is to figure out a way to gently up prices so I can then afford to keep the good help I have, otherwise the future of surveying is in the hands of meth addicted cheap surveyor working to feed his addiction. Now if think that is an a-hole thing to say, you are right, I'm not trying to mock or degrade struggling addicts, but I see it all too often. Meth head crews with white trash tribal tattoe sleeves. I mean get tattoes worth looking at, not barb wire for crying out loud. At least them a conversation piece and I love tattoes.
Rant off.
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If you good work in a timely fashion, you'll get plenty of work with the highest prices in town.
spledeus, post: 444615, member: 3579 wrote: How do you afford to leave the office.
I have a mission impossible right now. We looked at it 10 years ago and told them to make a boundary agreement. They cannot see eye to eye and one party put up 10k for hourly research which is not guaranteed to be successful.
No fee is ever too great.
I'm pretty sure that I didn't write anything about some complicated boundary with fighting neighbors being surveyed for $700. I'm also pretty sure I didn't write anything criticizing anyone that charged a large fee for such a survey.
Tommy Young, post: 444638, member: 703 wrote: If you good work in a timely fashion, you'll get plenty of work with the highest prices in town.
I am getting a lot of good work from the homegrown crowd because of that. I loose a lot too because of the old timers prices.
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C.Tompkins, post: 444641, member: 975 wrote: I am getting a lot of good work from the homegrown crowd because of that. I loose a lot too because of the old timers prices.
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There's nothing you can do about that. I don't care what you're doing, there will always be a market for a cheap service provider. As long as you're busy, and making money, you don't want those people anyway.
Tommy Young, post: 444639, member: 703 wrote: I'm pretty sure that I didn't write anything about some complicated boundary with fighting neighbors being surveyed for $700. I'm also pretty sure I didn't write anything criticizing anyone that charged a large fee for such a survey.
A PE from some southern state prepared his own site plan. Now he needs an as-built. It's an older subdivision (bearings on the perimeter and distances to the nearest foot on the interior). Most of the lots have bounds at the corners. We have resolved much of the subdivision. He questioned my fee of $900 and I told him we were giving him a deal. He told me he could get 3 plots plans in his state. The property is assessed for $470,000, is a second property and is rented for the summer. The rent should be somewhere between $2000 and $3000 a week. I am certainly not charging enough on that one, but he has not returned, so perhaps he found someone to complete the project for less.
I cannot get my crew out the door for $300.
spledeus, post: 444653, member: 3579 wrote: A PE from some southern state prepared his own site plan. Now he needs an as-built. It's an older subdivision (bearings on the perimeter and distances to the nearest foot on the interior). Most of the lots have bounds at the corners. We have resolved much of the subdivision. He questioned my fee of $900 and I told him we were giving him a deal. He told me he could get 3 plots plans in his state. The property is assessed for $470,000, is a second property and is rented for the summer. The rent should be somewhere between $2000 and $3000 a week. I am certainly not charging enough on that one, but he has not returned, so perhaps he found someone to complete the project for less.
I cannot get my crew out the door for $300.
Well he should have hired the surveyor who would provide that service at a third of your fee. Then he could have made $1200 instead of $600.
Ron Lang, post: 444655, member: 6445 wrote: Well he should have hired the surveyor who would provide that service at a third of your fee. Then he could have made $1200 instead of $600.
Travel time would bring that fee up considerably.
We work on Nantucket now and again. That is the little island where the lawns of billionaires are mowed by millionaires. We charge our normal fees plus travel time and we are still less than the island surveyors. We do not do much over there and we do not charge enough when we are there.
When a contractor wins a bid, they look at the next lowest and kick themselves for leaving that much on the table. We need that mentality.
Reread the OP before posting this draft. I'm not sure I'm in the direction the thread was supposed to head but, I wanted to say it just the same. Others made similar points.
Survey pricing, imo, should be extremely subjective as very few jobs are the same. Item of note: This fee structure is altogether different than the real estate industry, where a sale is a sale and a commission is a pretty standard percentage.
That said, I think the only comparison that could be made and bring any value to your research would be on a reasonably similar survey.
Considering that minimum standards for single-family subdivisions were probably approximating the same standard for monumentation and recordation, across the country, somewhere in the later 1990's (no research to confirm this date has been made), you may want to ask what is the going range (or rate) for surveying a lot in a platted subdivision, recorded after 1999. Limit that further to: single-family subdivision, post-1999, with 1/5 to 1/3 acre lots.
For me, I've given a verbal budget of $700-750 bucks over the phone for 3 of these in the past 3 weeks. I don't get a call back in this town.
On a similar note, I've done a 1/3-acre lot in this town for $600 in the past year. Centerline control, recorded plat, not much landscaping. Showed up and started. During the course of survey, the current homeowner offered me a previous map of the same lot (her personal survey, not recorded). Found the irons "that guy" set and, approximately 2 feet east, found the originals. Pretty sure I posted a rant about that one.
I agree that pricing is very subjective if you're giving a fixed fee (recall, almost every job is different). I also feel that lot surveys, in particular, have some allure that can't be explained. They should be so simple and a good fill-in for a slack day or weekend, possibly. Hey, if my equipment is mobilized, I'm putting something in the bank.
However, they are almost never simple and I don't see myself doing another for $600.
paden cash, post: 444460, member: 20 wrote: Combined actual labor amounts (of all members on crew) times 3 is a good start.
This is why surveyors are good at surveying and not necessarily too good at business. We use a 4.5 to 6 multiplier on hourly jobs. The actual multiplier can be significantly higher on lump sum jobs which is what we always strive for. The only way to stop the surveying race to the bottom on pricing is too charge what your worth.
Yes, my 3 survey crews and 4 office personnel are fully booked for as far ahead as I can see. Surveyors must get away from using the 3x barrier!
VA LS 2867, post: 444493, member: 1444 wrote: This one is simple. You, as the professional, are to price your job based on what you think it will take to get the job done. If you miss your mark and have more time in it, unless you are billing hourly, you take your lumps and eat the added cost. I usually will look at a project and if there is something sketchy with it, the fee gets bumped up for contingencies.
WOW. No offense 2867 but this statement is wrong in so many ways. Would a plumber quote you $400 to fix a pipe and then arrive on site to find that your entire plumbing system needs replaced at a cost of $5,000 and simply fix it for $400? Hell no! No one would work within a business model like that. Or, no one that wants to make a profit, that is. I realize the plumber is tradesman and we should not compare our profession to a plumber but the example is fair.
Why not create an scope of work that defines your assumptions and provide a diagram such as "this cost is based on the assumption that the N 1/4 and NE section corner exist and are found to be in the correct location. If we find something to the contrary we will stop work and address additional charges before moving forward." Using your example you would be on the hook for solving any and all issues on your own dime. that is not a good business model at all.
I find most clients appreciate a overview map with the key points you expect to find along with the points you expect to set. Pretty much everyone has seen google earth now and most homeowners can relate to aerials much better than an assessor map when defining the monuments you anticipate and need to be able to meet your contract.
Tommy Young, post: 444471, member: 703 wrote: Generally speaking, lot surveys are $700 and 5 acre tracts run about $1000.
I wish I could get those fees. The competing local survey mills are so focused on volume in order to retain personnel, that every time the economy slows down, they drop prices to keep crews busy; then, when things pick up, it takes a long time to bring fees back up. Rinse and repeat.
Being solo, every minute spent on a job is mine and every penny coming in is also mine. I do not own the latest and greatest, used stuff works fine - from trucks to instruments. I could not afford to do good work and pay employees too. What's a vacation, anyway?
I do have a question that's probably been answered before: How is it that the 6% sales commission (10% on bare land) on a property is not price fixing? I know it's negotiable - I know of one very successful broker who started selling right out of high school. He lived with mom & pop, pumped gas nights for spending money and waived his share of the commission to generate listings. He's now a bazillionaire. But still, most people expect to pay 6% commision on the sale of property. Why can they not expect to pay 2 - 2.5% to the surveyor?