All of the above. Any telecom infrastructure project or what they call 'outside plant' in the telecom business requires good quality mapping for placement design, engineers need to know where existing infrastructure is in relation to rights of way, existing easements, property corners. Often roads aren't centered in the ROW, pole lines are not where GIS record maps place them, on and on. Typically a utility is prospecting a route for one of their projects, we'll go in and map the route to show them where everything really is and provide them with quality accurate mapping. From that information they can determine where they may need to acquire easements, where there's room for them or not, encroachments, ect.. Engineers can then design a route that won't require extensive redesign, acquire the easements they'll need and make a more accurate cost estimate because we've eliminated (most of) the surprises. Since we've already surveyed the route when it comes time to stake it we already have most of the control dialed in and it's a fast and efficient process.
My suggestion would be to talk with various utilities and don't pitch them on your services but ask them about how they deal with mapping issues, what kind of problems they encounter and how they are presently dealing with them. Feel them out. If you can clearly identify problems they are having you might have an opportunity to present them with some solutions. This is exactly how my predecessor opened the door to what I do for my clients today. It started as an experiment over 20 years ago and apparently it's worked out well for everyone. I'll leave you with this thought, don't do what everyone else is doing but rather seek out a niche that everyone else has overlooked and fill that need. I like to tell my clients that I'm here to make them look good. (;
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
Lidar & photography...but if you're working a full time job, that's not the kind of work you can do on the side.
I greatly appreciate the content and the time it took to give me your feedback. This rings so true with what I do in my full time job (Run the GIS shop for a municipality). I could approach businesses with surveying/mapping solutions that we implement for our city infrastructure!
This be true. But I do have a "fired up" 17 year old son who is imaginative and not afraid to work!
Entrusting the control for a high dollar project to an energetic 17 year old with part time supervision ..... let's just say that you don't want to put that in the brochure. I mean, I'm sure that your lad is a fine young man, but speaking as someone who has raised 3 such persons, and been one myself, they come up with some crazy ideas, tend to treat deadlines rather casually, and generally don't knuckle under easily.
I'm picking up what you're puttin' down. I'd never leave him at the helm until he has proven himself. He's grown up in an unconventional family with a Marine and Army father and mother, respectively. This has produced an unconventional 17 year old. I may not leave him in full charge of a project, but you better believe that he will feel the load of responsibility as I circle back and check to make sure that everything is squared away! But again, I get where you're coming from.
Take on some small boundary jobs to help acquaint your son with the research/legal side of surveying.?ÿ These small jobs can be knocked out quickly enough to give him a nice variety of experiences.?ÿ Do not be a bottom feeder just because you have the financial ability to do so.?ÿ Offer similar fees to others who are doing that work every day, even though they may be significantly lower than what you make at your cushy job.?ÿ Gaining the experience is critical but do not injure your fellow professionals by undercutting them.
Firestix....The "side gig" aspect of your description really limits what you can do. I think it would be hard to tell your municipal boss that you need to take time off to go stake some utilities or knock out a commercial survey for a client.
That said, I would recommend getting on thumbtack and a nice facebook profile for the business. Be prepared to do lot surveys on the cheap to compete and get your son trained. In 6 years you should have a trained son and enough money saved up to get the insurance coverage to meet what most decent sized clients require.
The market on the coast is very hot and the bigger firms don't waste time on lot surveys (just not enough money in them)...So you are competing against one man outfits. Of those that I talk too, most are still running 3-6 month backlogs and are either established or have online marketing campaigns. I do suggest that you chase solo PE's as the NCDOT driveway permit requirements lead to a lot of small strip topo's, but once again those PE's have schedules to meet and the side gig status might not meet their requirements.
Also be aware of your competition....most of these surveyors can turn around a completed lot survey in the 3-4 hour range to NC standards. Your son may be driven, but he will be competing against seasoned PLS's with a lot of field experience and knowledge.
My recommendation is take what you get and get the boy trained so that when you retire you can chase the bigger jobs. Enjoy the time with him passing on your knowledge and being outside the office.
As to trained, no insult to your son but there is a lot to surveying that a weekend gig won't teach quickly. For comparison, my 20 year old son has 6 years almost full time surveying experience, 3 years as a party chief, and has recently reached the humbling point that he realized there is a lot more to surveying than he knows. When he mentioned that to me, I told him his training really starts now. This was after he finished off the field work on a 160 acre boundary and topo basically by himself.
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@holy-cow
LOL "Cushy" job. Right.
a lot of truth in this post in my opinion. As a PE & licensed GC In NC who’s looking to get his PLS (a good portion of my experience is in grading/utility & site construction for subdivisions & commercial sites) there is definitely a need for experienced surveyors in this field as they’re aging out and the average age of them in NC is over 60yrs old. I know somebody mentioned earlier looking into utility route surveying and doing topographic/field locates Or simple driveway maps too which is one thing...
But I would make sure you really understand the construction staking aspect before you endeavor into ANY of that. I’ve seen several PE’s small firms that draw designs for utilities, storm drainage & foundation plans that went south on the poor surveyor who was staking it & who had to eat the cost of something staked & constructed due to it being constructed either in the wrong location (by even just a couple inches when it comes to front inside walls for catch basins & curb line). Even a shallow catch basin or SS manhole will set you back a couple grand if it needs to be moved (not to mention the pipe running into & out of it). A former coworker of mine owned his own surveying business & got burned on this once for over $20k by the grading/utility contractor due to a couple hundred feet of RCP & a catch basin being in the wrong location & the city wouldn’t accept it. And nothing against your son (He could be the most straightforward kid ever) but they’ll lay the blame on him every time just because he’s a teenager, especially the crusty old crew foreman or site superintendent who didn’t catch the mistake before they built it
significantly lower than what you make at your cushy job.
I, of course, can't speak for Kansas...but around here some licensed surveyors with 20+ years of experience employed as a city or county surveyor makes less than I pay an experienced crew chief.?ÿ
City managers and PEs do not like it when some technician or surveyor tells them that what they want can not be done because it is against state regulations.
They tend to let them go and hire someone that will send the paperwork in only to be denied and then get blamed for not fixing the problem and having problems getting paid.
Again, good advice. Thanks ncsudirtman, I appreciate the insight. As far as the aging PLS populace ... I have a theory on that:
I went to a class last year to upkeep my Professional Development Hours. About 70 or so men there. It's true, the average age was over 60, and they even opened the class with that fact. They then mentioned that we needed young blood to ensure the future of the profession. After that, it was nothing but a bunch of crotchety old men complaining about how the newbies know nothing about survey, yet I never heard one talk about taking any newbie under their wings and passing knowledge along. It has been my experience that a lot of these old surveyors play their cards close to their chest and aren't willing to share information, and still want to lament that the profession is dying out.
I might have been in that group, but I have had 16 people that have worked for me over the years to got their license, I know of one that is a dual registrant.
Ed
When I kicked off the small father/son survey side gig, I got a few jobs and things went well.?ÿ But things dried up ... even before COVID.?ÿ I'm mainly after lot surveys.?ÿ Or is there something else I should be looking into??ÿ What's the best way to market a small shop and where should I spend my energy to get the best bang for my buck/time?
Are you and your boy adventurous? I'm licensed in Florida with a survey business my wife and I started 18 years ago. I got my license in Nevada a dozen years ago and have wanted to do business out there ever since. A place to fund vacations in the area plus have a sanctuary from hurricanes. My son is now 13, and I'm contemplating taking him with me to aid in my endeavor. Our goal is Northern Nevada, the next Silicon Valley.
Just starting the father son business IS being adventurous for us at this moment. I just want to get a couple of years of steady work under our belts and work out all the business and workflow kinks before we start to dream big. If we were to move west, it would be Arizona. It's where the Mrs is from.
@flga
are you referring to ALTA surveys?
Absolutely not. That's a whole different ball game. I'm jabberin' about "Mortgage Surveys/Inspection Surveys" (In FL they are referred to as "Boundary Surveys") not something as intensive as an ALTA. ????
It may be counter to your intent but letting the lad get out and work on his own for other outfits might bring him the experience he'll needs while bringing some fresh ideas and different perspective on how to accomplish different missions. Some of the best advice I ever received along the way was to work for as many different outfits as I could so that I could see how different surveyors operate and ultimately bring the best of their games to my own table. If someone only works under one umbrella they are only going to learn one way of doing things and their exposure to new ideas will be limited.?ÿ
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Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
I like this idea. However, the boy done purchased his own pressure washer to start a pressure washing business in between surveying jobs. (Can't say that I'm mad at him)