Need some advice....

Sounds like your organization is considering Survey to be a support function and not a viable equal profit center. This will most likely place the Surveyor as a 2nd Class employee within the organization. In the past, I offered my services to DBE/WBE firms who were very happy to have me. It is amazing how much work you can acquire when you are a DBE/WBE firm that delivers. The model that you describe is definitely the direction large engineering firms are going.?ÿ Corporate has determined that there is more money in managing than actually doing the work. If your desire is to be a Surveyor, you may want to consider working for a company that wants to survey.

One the things that prompted my leaving BMF (Big Multidisciplinary Firmƒ?›) last year was that an RFQ showed up for a IDIQ DOT survey contract in a state where we had an engineering presence, but no survey boots on the ground, that included a rewrite of their survey manual in the scope. I had just written the survey & SUE portion of an update for the DC DOT design manual as part of a team with Aecom.?ÿ I figured there would be a limited number of firms that had something like that recent on their resume and would give us a leg up as being the second of the two firms selected.

I was told that the Director of Marketing (business background, no technical background in engineering) decided that we had gone after that state's survey contract in the past without success, so he didn't want to go for it this time, and that we would use my license (I was the only surveyor with a license in that state in the firm) to help land engineering contracts.?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ

These are exactly the same issues I am seeing and hearing...?ÿ

Can't be any different in my opinion. As much automation has occured in the surveying portion of surveying/engineering firms even more has occured in drafting and design. The perception of an outsider is the survey department is lagging behind and certianly is less profitable.

What does it cost to send a construction inspector in to the field? What level of training/experience is required? How much equipment does he/she have?

What does it cost to send a survey crew in to the field? What level of training/experience is required? How much equipement does he/she have?

If your shop doesn't have someone in charge who can see how all the services are tied together it could be a really rough road ahead.

Steve

@StLSurveyor
Is this a new change from previous long standing business goals?

If so, wait it out a bit. Things could turn back around, for the better.
If Not, and you are just becoming aware, then that is different.

I was employed as department head for a multi office growing firm, and the focus changed... It was probably an astute business decision.
They continued to grow, they prospered, they were absorbed into a much larger enterprise. The share holders/partners probably did very well financially. I am glad that I pulled the plug and moved on while they were in transition.

Are you directly involved in marketing?

PS: I have no advice. Large firms can be a great place to earn a living and be secure. However sometimes entire sectors can be deleted, and you with it. (my crystal ball is having connection issues today)

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Those are most of the reasons why I have been solo for over 25 years.

The biggest decision maker for me was when I realized that I was the only person committed to the profession and everyone else was simply waiting for Friday.

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Sounds like "your department" isn't yours.?ÿ I feel your frustration.?ÿ I'm supposed to be the department manager overseeing all of our our offices.?ÿ I am not involved in ANY strategic planning.?ÿ Though it is never said, survey here is a necessary evil to support engineering.?ÿ

I can go after any work I want to and it is encouraged.?ÿ I agree to do work for a client and schedule accordingly (after checking survey needs with all project managers.)?ÿ Field and office work is written on a weekly/monthly schedule for all to see.?ÿ?ÿUnfortunately others schedule me and my crews without looking at the schedule.?ÿ I am told their work has priority.?ÿ That leaves me to smooth things over with my clients.?ÿ When we were exceptionally busy, my office work was piling up.?ÿ I made it known that I HAD to be in the office to get things done.?ÿ I was told I could work in the office when it was dark outside.?ÿ

My advice..do like me and make sure your resume is up to date.?ÿ

I work for a fairly large 'Engineering' firm. Our office invests in us (Surveyors) and we make them money. We also make a very good living.

This isnt my first run at a large firm and the differences here are obvious. First, we are respected and valued. Management shows it. Second, our boss is has very good business sense. That pays off in both money and job satisfaction.

Life is too short to work with people that don't respect and value you. Only you can judge how nuch effort to put into making that happen..

@stlsurveyor

I agree with Peter Ehlert, ƒ??If so, wait it out a bit. Things could turn back around, for the better.ƒ?

At the ripe old age of 28 I was offered a job as VP to manage the Survey Department of a small Engineering firm. The owner was a remarkable businessman and the firm went from 20 people to 60 in a 3 year period. The Company was then purchased by a multi-national Engineering firm which meant all kinds of corporate bureaucracy came along with it. I waited it out for a while and decided this wasn't for me. Since I was a Principal I resigned, sold my stock, stared my own business 30 years ago and never looked back.

If things at your organization arenƒ??t to your liking after you have waited it out a bit move on. Meanwhile start exploring your options. Remember, you can do anything if you intensely apply yourself to your goal.?ÿ ??ÿ

I have seen both sides of this coin. If you are not wanted or needed or treated like 'support for the money makers' then move on.?ÿ There are plenty of firms that do not treat surveyors in this manner. Me, like thebionicman, happen to work for firms where we are treated equal...or more than equals (it's significantly more difficult to find a good surveyor-manager than it is an Engineer-Manager)?ÿ The smart businessmen know this..

Thanks for al the thoughts. The plan of not pursuing surveying but instead mapping and geospatial work is pretty new. Since I came aboard the mobile LiDAR has been a huge success (even award winning ACEC), the terrestrial scanning has taken off as well and I have gotten nothing but support. It just seems so odd to me that with all this success - the strategic plan is to just abandon all the surveying. Now, I get it, I understand the profit is huge with the LiDAR. Hell I can survey 17 miles of highway in half a day. But - those jobs don't happen every day and I cant sit around and do nothing. Thus far, I have not been involved in the strategic planning - its just been relayed to me that our third party consultant thinks that its best to abandon surveying.?ÿ Clearly the consultant doesn't understand that it takes surveying to do all those cool LiDAR things - and to make it all actually work.?ÿ

Is there a Survey Department voice in the strategic planning group??ÿ If not have you or someone else tried to inject yourselves into that conversation??ÿ If your firm has the budget for the mobile mapping tech you're talking about it certainly seems there should be a member of that user group included in upper level planning and strategy.?ÿ Lack of self advocacy within a firm that size can leave a person stuck in the closet with nothing but resentment for the decision makers in my experience.?ÿ

as an aside... am I the only one wondering what?ÿ a?ÿ "GeoSlam" is??ÿ?ÿ

Google it. Awesomesause?ÿ

hmmm.... let me get this straight.... awsomesause = GeoSlam?

Exactly what language has overtaken this country anyway?!? ??ÿ

dang, that looks awesome indeed!?ÿ ?ÿ

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Many, if not most, large engineering firms see surveying as support for the engineering departments and not as a equal. In other words they see surveying as being subordinate to engineering and a loss leader. Surveying exists to serve engineering to get the bigger more profitable design work. That has been happening for a long time and has increased since the recession. There really is not the money in doing the things we like to do. A surveying department in a large multi-discipline engineering firm cannot possibly charge the money required to break even doing boundaries and topos and asbuilts. But they can if they offer up services related to surveying like S.U.E. work. And if you are DBE you're probably doing S.U.E. work and there is not a licensure requirement for that kind of work. I despise D.O.T. & S.U.E. work.

I've never worked for BMF before, so I don't have a lot to add. I would think that your professional label doesn't mean a lot once you are in the door, and that your performance does. If you are?ÿthe go-to guy for all things scanning or some other newfound technical priority for the company, I would not be concerned. I've had quite a few friends and relatives who were in important places in management for large firms that were managing work that wasn't on their resume when they started. They adapted to the changing business climate and thrived. Sort of like having a degree - it gets you in the door, but doesn't hold much security for staying there. The real problem is if you really don't like doing that sort of work even if you are the go-to guy for it. Then there are questions of quality of life vs. financial stability that only you can answer.

It seems like in any large corporation, even when things are going well, new management likes to make changes to justify their existence. If this pursuit ends up being profitable then it will likely continue for a while, if not, I'd expect a hard turn back to more traditional and stable (if less profitable) priorities. So, as others have said, waiting it out may work well.

In other words they see surveying as being subordinate to engineering and a loss leader

I can't speak for every market, but if you try and run a survey department (or a team within a department) around here and don't turn a profit you're going to be looking for another job real soon.?ÿ

you're probably doing S.U.E. work and there is not a licensure requirement for that kind of work. I despise D.O.T. & S.U.E. work.

Every municipal, state, or federal agency I was contracted to do SUE work for contractually required the work to be performed under the responsible charge of a PE or LS and all the final deliverable were sealed and certified by the same.?ÿ?ÿ