I would only worry about a Conflict of Evidence. If there's any significant doubt, I would say no. Otherwise, no problem.?ÿ
@rover83 I understand where you're coming from, but I think each situation has to be looked at on a case by case basis and the presumption made that the competent professional is capable and be allowed the final say in whether they feel they are exposing themselves to undue scrutiny. To me there is a stark difference in surveying my own property in a boundary dispute with a neighbor where my survey might be used as evidence in court and me measuring the offset to a section line to stake the footings for my new shop so that I don't place it within a setback. To me the essence of the word 'professional' connotes that good judgement will be used and not misappropriated for shady or fraudulent purposes.?ÿ
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A local surveyor's main business was buying up property, surveying it into tracts and selling the tracts. He did it all over the county. I was out on an old property of that surveyor for the present owner, there are fence posts marking rebar all over out there. The present owner asked me what they were and I replied that I believe they are marking tracts for sales that never happened.
I don't have any problem with the practice of surveying your own property. I'm not seeing the issue, the board here must not have an issue cause I know board members that have done it.?ÿ
@williwaw oh okay.?ÿ I was thinking about a different surveyor up your way who also got into the developer business.
@rover83?ÿ
Scale matters. If this were a million dollar transaction, the appearance of a conflict would matter.?ÿ In a situation where no other parties are affected, all parties are made aware of the possible conflict, and the stakes are paltry, it's just not in the same realm.
I certainly can think of situations where I wouldn't do it, but this particular situation is not one of them.
@dave-o?ÿ
Someone irrationally jumping to the suspicion of conflict of interest doesn't necessarily equal appearance of conflict of interest
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Well, I guess that's where ethics come in.?ÿ Thus the discussion.?ÿ You might have a future in politics!.
The discussion of someone buying a property, subdividing it themselves, and selling it with reference to their monuments has no bearing on the case of surveying off a portion of something to buy yourself, whether or not you think there is a conflict in the latter case.
Is it unethical and a conflict of interest to perform my own survey?
Unethical??ÿ That depends.?ÿ Do you plan on abusing your position as the surveyor in responsible charge for this project??ÿ If not, then no, it is not unethical at all, imo.
It's only a conflict of interest if you are proven to have done something unethical in your own favor.
I find it absurd that we're trusted to not play favorites with strangers but the second we have a sliver of personal interest in a project then suddenly we're crooks.?ÿ It makes so little logical sense that it actually sounds more like a version of political correctness run amok.
Anyway, I think all you need to remember is that just because you're licensed and working on your own property doesn't mean you're immune to a board review of your work.?ÿ So, do a quality job and save yourself several thousand dollars or more.
I find it absurd that we're trusted to not play favorites with strangers but the second we have a sliver of personal interest in a project then suddenly we're crooks.
Reductio ad absurdum. Not what I posted or implied.
It makes so little logical sense that it actually sounds more like a version of political correctness run amok.
Also no. This has nothing to do with political correctness.
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Literally every basic ethics course covers conflict of interest. It's one of the most basic and easy to understand concepts, and it applies to everyone, no matter how awesome they are at their job or how much of a stand-up guy they or their buddies think they are.
It's one of the most basic and easy to understand concepts, and it applies to everyone, no matter how awesome they are at their job or how much of a stand-up guy they or their buddies think they are.
I've seen this argument before, in the bible.?ÿ It doesn't matter if you're a believer or not, jesus died for you and thus, you owe him.
I generally dismiss these sorts of arguments out of hand because it's clear to me the goal behind them is to control rather than to analyze and ultimately educate.
The entire notion of conflict of interest in the survey example above is one of prejudice.?ÿ The professional is being preemptively judged as untrustworthy.?ÿ Now, you say this concept has been taught in schools for some amount of time.?ÿ That's great, but that doesn't mean it's not a load of garbage.
I will agree that the notion of conflict of interest has its place in certain circumstances-- like when getting the OK from my employer to propose on a project with my LLC that the company is also proposing on.?ÿ But some kind of armchair, gut-feeling Minority Report nonsense??ÿ Yeah, I don't have a problem swatting that down all day, every day.
I've seen this argument before, in the bible.?ÿ It doesn't matter if you're a believer or not, jesus died for you and thus, you owe him.
Where in the hell did you get religion out of anything that I have posted? I'm veering far too close to P&R for my comfort but for the record I'm an atheist and critic of organized religion.
I generally dismiss these sorts of arguments out of hand because it's clear to me the goal behind them is to control rather than to analyze and ultimately educate.
Considering you dismiss my position out of a desire to prove that you are better than everyone else (immune to bias), you have a lot to learn about the fundamentals of ethics.
The entire notion of conflict of interest in the survey example above is one of prejudice.?ÿ The professional is being preemptively judged as untrustworthy.
If that's what you're taking away from ethics courses, you're not only a poor student but also paranoid and vindictive.
I will agree that the notion of conflict of interest has its place in certain circumstances-- like when getting the OK from my employer to propose on a project with my LLC that the company is also proposing on.?ÿ But some kind of armchair, gut-feeling Minority Report nonsense??ÿ Yeah, I don't have a problem swatting that down all day, every day.
It appears that you have missed the fact that the vast majority of ethical philosophy is founded upon the notion that we don't get to pick and choose what is right based upon our personal whims.
@rover83?ÿ
My opposition to your view is that it allows for zero nuance which implies that you've focused on one aspect of ethics to the determent of others.?ÿ Ethics falls under the discipline of philosophy where few absolutes exists.?ÿ I work against my instinct to take black and white views as it has a tendency to encourage me to judge others unfairly.?ÿ As can be evidenced on this forum, I don't always succeed at this.
Having no ability to read your mind or put your words in any other context than this thread and others, it appears to me that by emphasizing a, no-never-under-no-circumstances approach to this situation, you have chosen to overly simplify ethics.
I found, Justice: What's the Right Thing to Do, to be a valuable aid to help recognize when I'm trying to make something complicated or uncertain seem simple.?ÿ Academic Earth is a great resource.?ÿ The link takes you to a full semester Harvard philosophy course taught by Michael Sandel.?ÿ
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*Disclaimer: This post is not meant to imply that anyone posting is not well versed in philosophy, lacking in intelligence, inferior or deficient in any way, or incorrect in their views.?ÿ You're probably right and I'm aware that I'm often wrong.?ÿ
If this is a conflict of interest, then where does it stop??ÿ Can you then also not survey for family or friends??ÿ
I usually think of conflict of interest when a company gets a municipal contract where the owner's brother is the town manager.
In this case, it's private property and the owner has the right to hire whoever he wants.?ÿ So, he's not worrying about any potential conflicts.?ÿ The only possibility would then be the abutters.?ÿ But that's a possible issue in pretty much every survey we do, and they're welcome to then hire their own surveyor to check and/or dispute
@rover83?ÿ
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So, the appearance of a conflict of interest is not a conflict of interest. It may be a psychological fact, but that does not make it true.
That sorta hits the nail on the head !
If it's headed for Court, better get another Surveyor that you haven't had any relationship with. Opposing Attorney worked my impartial Expert Witness Surveyor over pretty hard trying to show we had some type of a relationship.
The opposing Attorney will definately make a big deal out of your surveying for yourself.
