I need some serious advice...PLEASE

The first questions that come to my mind are:

How long would it take me to create that same work environment for myself? (Three crews mostly office job).

Would it increase my quality of life and income (distant second) to perform these duties for the other firm, or for myself.

Food for thought.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Going to work for someone else may give you freedom short term. Long term you should consider having others make money for you. This would also help you honor any commitments made in taking over the new client base...

I started my business 7 years ago in western VA and know exactly what you feel. The ups and downs of money and the hours makes you think what it will be like in 15 years. I work 60-70 hours a week and really do not see that changing. I am nearing 50 years old and I can still manage these mountains but solo surveyors are one good injury away from going under. The equipment these days are outdated or not supported after a few years. Insurance rates will never go down. Don't get me wrong, I love what I do and am really pleased with the business I started, considering the economy 7 years ago, but if an opportunity knocked I would have to take a look. If for no other reason than a consistent paycheck and some retirement. Good luck with your decision.

Sounds like a pretty cush job offer might come your way.

Sounds like your 8 year old business might be picking up.

If it were me, I'd have to ask myself, "What do you want to do?"
Scratching to keep my own business going consumed a lot of my time...to the point that when an opportunity for that business to take off came along, I realized I had never really thought it out that well. WHAT IF it makes it to the "big time"???

Being offered a prominent desk at an organization can be flattering, especially from long term friends or associates you respect or admire. I accepted one of those offers, once. It was only after I accepted the position that I realized I could never be happy "working for someone else" anymore. I felt like I had let myself down. A lot of times once a person runs his own shop, he is "ruined" as an employee of others...not a hard rule, but I've seen it happen a lot.

If you've spent the last eight years keeping the buckboards between the ditches, you are probably pretty dedicated to yourself and you've done pretty well. Be kind to yourself and do what your heart leads you toward...no matter which path you choose.

The "one good injury away..." thing is probably the biggest risk a solo operator faces, because it can force him out of the field and effectively kill the business model. But if the economy is hot, he can still find a desk job somewhere.

In other words, in boom times the work will be there, so the question is, do you want to be at the top layer where *you* make the demands on your time, or a couple layers down where other people make the demands on your time? Those 70-hour weeks will still be there if the management above you decides that your salary justifies it. And if the economy takes a nosedive, that big salary will be a tempting place for upper management to make cuts.

There probably isn't a small-time operator out there who hasn't considered just what you're considering at one time or another, so I don't think you can make a wrong decision. If you try the salaried employee gig and find that it isn't all you'd hoped it would be, you can always go back out on your own. It'll take awhile to get back up and running, and may be an expensive lesson, but at least you'll have a definitive answer.

Good luck, in any case.

After being your own “boss” for the past 8 years you may find it a little difficult to take orders contrary to your own way of thinking. Also you should be diligent as to what type of benefits, especially medical, will be available to you.

Also, although you work many hours, you and only you make the decisions as to when to work and when not to. Will the new position entail as many hours as you currently work?

And last, and by far the most important how does Shannon feel about it?
Best wishes for continued success regardless of which path you choose!

Bill

Here's a good question. What are you more after right now, more money, or less hours? You know as well as I do that if you pick up that other work and increase your billings 50%, you're not going to be working fewer hours.

Since you've worked with these people before, you should have a really good handle on the working environment, so there would be no surprises there.

Damn Jimmy, good problems, right? I am no good at typing my thoughts. Words are hard.

And I can only speak from my recent experience. Started solo 1999. Took a "day job" with a great small firm from 2006-2009, and they let me keep my business open on the side for evenings and weekend work (a very smart move). They went from 0 to 22 to 0 employees in record time. Well, since my business was still in operation, I hit the ground running in 2009.

Then I really [messed] up. I got tempted and flattered by a position very similar to what you describe in 2012. It was a nightmare. Lasted 6 months.

As Uncle P says, I learned that

paden cash, post: 324502, member: 20 wrote: I could never be happy "working for someone else" anymore

Jimmy, call me or e-mail me to delve into this conversation deeper if you want to , it deserves much marinating and chewing over.

ott at main street consulting dot com

three one seven four five nine four seven six five.

All the best to you my man, it feels good to be flattered, right?

I loved a lot of the elements of running my own solo practice but ultimately shut it down and went to work for a http://amtengineering.com/&apos ;">multi-state engineering firm for a few reasons:

• The type of work. I like working on http://www.anacostiawaterfront.org/awi-transportation-projects/south-capitol-street-corridor/&apos ;">large, complicated, high profile projects
• The type of client. The clients on a lot of my projects don't care about the survey budget, quality on-time deliverables don't come cheap and they understand that.
• The atmosphere. I like working around people and I like working with other surveyors and having people to bounce ideas off of.
• The resources. I can afford to hire quality staff and we generally have a six figure annual budget for upgrading field equipment.
• The lack of business related hassles. I don't do much real survey production work anymore - I write proposals, manage projects and budgets, and deal with bean counters. What I don't do is worry about insurance, retirement plans, vehicle maintenance, buying copiers, etc.
• The future. The size of our operation lets me hire, mentor, and bring along future surveyors. I have a couple of LSITs who are going to be sitting for their PS in a couple of years and a couple of party chiefs that are getting ready to sit for their LSIT. The lack of mentoring of future surveyors is, to me, the main downfall of growth of solo firms.

That being said, I've worked in this market for almost 30 years, and this is the only firm I would have shut down my company to come to work for. If I didn't see myself working here (if not this office, at least this firm) until retirement and, more importantly, thought that management saw me working here until retirement I wouldn't have made the change.

Jimmy Cleveland, post: 324493, member: 91 wrote: August 1, 2015 will be the 8 year anniversary of me opening my mostly solo surveying business. It has been a wild ride, and there have been plenty of ups and downs. Times when the money was good, and times when the money was pretty dang tight. Things seem to be on the upswing. I have a very good friend that is moving away from the area, and he is slowly working me into helping me with his projects, so it will be a seamless transition for his clients when he does make the move early next year. His clients seem to be okay with it, and our jobs so far seem to be going well.

Early last week, I also met, by happenstance, the owner of a rather large construction company that said he would start using me for a large portion of his layout work in West Tennessee. I already have a project that should start next month.

The client I am working with now has been using my friend for almost 15 years, and has the potential to increase my annual billings my 50% to 60%. I bill out a pretty respectable amount for a solo operation, especially in this part of the state, and I have a good client base of local engineering firms that I pick up some of their overflow work on large projects, and get referrals on smaller jobs that they can't do. I also have a great reputation in my local county.

Here is the twist. I received a phone call from a former employer, with whom I have a great relationship, and have done some subcontract work for, about a soon to be, Survey Manager job. An offer has not been made, but the 2 hour interview/discussion yesterday was very relaxed and positive. The general salary range was what a friend mentioned he would expect for our area. They have a seasoned, 3 crew, field staff that I have worked with many of them before, and are a great bunch of guys. I would be in the office 98% of the time, managing the crews, researching jobs, drawing jobs, coordinating and scheduling for clients, working with DOT clients, etc.

Like I said, an offer has not been made, and there is one other individual interested. I feel like I am seriously being considered for the position. I interviewed because I felt I owed it to myself to see what was out there for both myself, and my family. I work approximately 60-70 hours a week, an constantly a day or two behind, and work late nights, early mornings, and it is always a struggle to get out into the field on time.

I would probably have to add a crew if things continue to progress at my firm, but that comes with additional responsibilities.

I would like to ask for feedback and advice from my friends here on things I might not have thought about. I am still young, but the summers seem to be getting hotter, and the winters colder, and I am starting to have trouble with my right elbow. It hurts pretty bad most days from the robot rod and swinging a hammer.

Thank you in advance. I will check back in later today. I am off to the field!

"I work approximately 60-70 hours a week..."

That should answer any questions! You are cheating your family by working this much.

I think that you need to discuss your long term goals with your family! it appears that you have a good handle on the pro's and con's of each choice and only you can decide what's best for your future.

A lot to consider, after being on my own for 20 years with about 18 months off to drive a truck commercially I was offered a staff surveyor position, doing pretty much 100% as I was solo, even to working out of my house. I made the transition in late April. That direct deposit every other Friday is nice!

Having said that, I don't know what the long term holds, at some point as the "field" guy, you become too decrepit to be out solo and I am not sure when that is for me, but I think maybe another five years tops...

I really enjoyed the driving gig, it was fun, saw a lot of North America and honestly pay wasn't that far from PLS wages except no benefits. When a CDL holder has the potential to earn as much or more than a PLS I really wonder what that says about our profession, mind you this was a pretty good gig, but a lot of owner ops have really nice trucks and make way more than most surveyors I know, something for me to ponder long term...

I do know, doing what you want is a lot of it, no amount of fancy office, benefits, etc. can make you happy if you dislike what you are doing every day...

SHG

Shelby H. Griggs PLS, post: 324574, member: 335 wrote: That direct deposit every other Friday is nice!

That is one good thing about working for someone else...every check you get is 100% profit!

Brad Ott, post: 324521, member: 197 wrote: Damn Jimmy, good problems, right? I am no good at typing my thoughts. Words are hard.

And I can only speak from my recent experience. Started solo 1999. Took a "day job" with a great small firm from 2006-2009, and they let me keep my business open on the side for evenings and weekend work (a very smart move). They went from 0 to 22 to 0 employees in record time. Well, since my business was still in operation, I hit the ground running in 2009.

Then I really [messed] up. I got tempted and flattered by a position very similar to what you describe in 2012. It was a nightmare. Lasted 6 months.

As Uncle P says, I learned that

Jimmy, call me or e-mail me to delve into this conversation deeper if you want to , it deserves much marinating and chewing over.

ott at main street consulting dot com

three one seven four five nine four seven six five.

All the best to you my man, it feels good to be flattered, right?

BRAD, did you use the F word?! o.O:-PB-)
Gonna have to kick your butt the next time I see you in Effingham. B-)

Angel, post: 324615, member: 100 wrote: BRAD, did you use the F word?! o.O:-PB-)
Gonna have to kick your butt the next time I see you in Effingham. B-)

Just testing the security measures arond here.
😉

Brad Ott, post: 324619, member: 197 wrote: Just testing the security measures arond here.
😉

Apparently they work... B-)

Ask yourself where do you want to be in five years. Then, make the decision.

Jimmy, it really is going to come down to what you and your family think is the best option for you. I was in a survey manager position 23 years ago, 4 offices and 13 crews. Loved the job, then the situation changed with my boss. A reorganization suddenly put me in the position of having 3 bosses, all wanting me to attend to what they considered the most urgent problem. After 6 months of that, I left and started my on business. My wife and I started it with nothing and after over 20 years, we have most of that left. I have had the ups and downs also, gone from solo to one employee to as many as 12 employees. Now I'm back down to me and 2 employees. Age will creep up on you. I'm on the up side of 50, have had 2 shoulder surgeries, 3 knee surgeries, 4 broken ribs and a back that if it belonged to a pack mule, I'd be put out of my misery. (Not all from surveying, mostly from the stupid stuff I did when I was younger that I knew I would pay for some day) I open my office at 0500 every morning, usually get home around 7 - 8 at night. But I love what I do and I don't think anybody would put up with me to work for them anymore. The other side of that is that I will tell my wife let's go somewhere, and we'll pack up and be gone for a week while my employees work on projects.

My only suggestion is if you choose to stay where you are, try to find some employees that you can let work for you while you take some down time. That is the most difficult aspect of owning a business I have found. I had to raise my employee that I leave in charge when I'm gone, and I have fired him twice. He gets better every time I rehire him.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

The gentleman I took over for when he retired was self employed for 25 years, more or less solo. He told me there were good times and other times he wondered what the cat would taste like. Seven years before he was going to hit 65 he realized he didn't have a retirement and started this little shop I run now for a utility that had previously contracted out all of their survey work. He spent the last seven years of his career working for 'the man' to build up a union retirement pension. He doing pretty well now after here retired with about eight years in the union together with his social security. Like others have said, you have to choose what's right for you and your family. The only thing I can add is that building a retirement nest egg as a solo operator weathering the ups and downs, can be a real challenge. Plan accordingly. I know of two other local surveyors in their 70's and 80's, both solo operators, who would have loved to retire years ago, but they can't afford to.