Getting School Board work here varies from parish (county) to other parishes.
I have been a school board contractor in two parishes. One was strictly political. Render unto Caeser etc
In my parish, I was a sub for a firm for many projects and eventually became a surveying service provider.
First the school board through construction department releases a RFQ though public notice. Fairly standard RFQ in scope.
They evaluate the vendors and then place anywhere from 4-6 firms on their qualified vendor list. Usually for a period of 2 years.
When surveying is needed, they send out RFPs to the list. Since everyone is qualified, then they are justified in taking the low bid.
I did a lot of work for a number of years. Not everyone would reply to the RFPs for different reasons. I was the smallest firm on the list.
I was in close proximity to a lot of the work and did thorough and detailed work. Being a small firm, I could schedule to facilitate the job. On jobs on busy campuses, I would work weekends to get a lot more accomplished time wise.
It came to my attention that I became a preferred vendor because I was discovering title problems on some properties that were overlooked in the past and I providing solutions.
There was one project that I wasn't awarded and didn't know why. It was an easy survey and 4 blocks from the office.
But other projects turned lucrative when added work was added after the original scope and I was onsite already.
Another large project was awarded to a firm then a conflict of interest was discovered and the work fell to me. Additional work was performed on that project upon completion when new access lanes from a state highway were required from the engineering firm doing the design. So if you had a crystal ball, you could roll the dice with a low bid upon the hunch that additional work would be required.
I never did that but maybe others did.
There were some politics involved in some projects.
Land acquisition was not through the construction department letting the school board attorney choose the surveyor by good ole boy network. I found those surveys deficient at times.
Also they could award to a firm previously on the list if they had done work at that site in the past. Saving dollars was the reason. I felt that was unfair.
foggyidea, post: 417301, member: 155 wrote: I do about 95% of my projects as fixed fee proposals. I sit down, review the Google Earth, nearby projects, the Registry of Deeds for plans of locus or abutting, and then I arrive at the "how long will it take." I use $200/hr now, so I arrive at a price. Then I ask myself, "Is it worth it to me to do it for that price?" Frequently I say no and adjust the price upward until it's worth it to me. I do my pricing by "value" pricing, that is, "HOW MUCH IS IT WORTH, TO ME, TO DO THAT PROJECT!"
" I do my pricing by "value" pricing, that is, "HOW MUCH IS IT WORTH, TO ME, TO DO THAT PROJECT!"
Interesting... "Value Pricing" to me means "What is the value of this service to the client?" and arrive at my fee from there. That amount should be at least 3 times more than the value to you - I frequently use 5-6 as the deciding factor.
Jim in AZ, post: 417474, member: 249 wrote: " I do my pricing by "value" pricing, that is, "HOW MUCH IS IT WORTH, TO ME, TO DO THAT PROJECT!"
Interesting... "Value Pricing" to me means "What is the value of this service to the client?" and arrive at my fee from there. That amount should be at least 3 times more than the value to you - I frequently use 5-6 as the deciding factor.
How do you establish the value to the client? Ouija Board? It has been my experience that the client hasn't a clue as to the value of the project, except that it's usually "is It that much?" My time and effort is much more valuable to me than any of my clients.
Jim in AZ, post: 417474, member: 249 wrote: Interesting... "Value Pricing" to me means "What is the value of this service to the client?" and arrive at my fee from there. That amount should be at least 3 times more than the value to you - I frequently use 5-6 as the deciding factor.
Perhaps Don just values himself more than you do 😉
foggyidea, post: 417482, member: 155 wrote: How do you establish the value to the client? Ouija Board? It has been my experience that the client hasn't a clue as to the value of the project, except that it's usually "is It that much?" My time and effort is much more valuable to me than any of my clients.
Well - you do understand what "value pricing" is, don't you? Its the value to the client - not to you. (Business 101)
I establish the value to the client based on my experience providing my services over the last 40+ years.
With all due respect, if you don't know what your services are worth to your clients I don't think you should be in business. How else would you establish a fee for a project?
Jim in AZ, post: 417487, member: 249 wrote: Well - you do understand what "value pricing" is, don't you? Its the value to the client - not to you. (Business 101)
I establish the value to the client based on my experience providing my services over the last 40+ years.
With all due respect, if you don't know what your services are worth to your clients I don't think you should be in business. How else would you establish a fee for a project?
LOL Jim, you're a funny guy. I know what my services should be worth to my clients, lol, that's why they pay their bills without complaining. Maybe my measly 35 years in the business, including the last 14 on my own, hasn't taught me much about clients, business, and proposals, but I've been pretty successful and happy.
With all due respect right back at ya, but I don't think that you understood my message; "Your clients don't know what you're worth until you tell them." (from a Larry Phipps seminar)
Mark Mayer, post: 417076, member: 424 wrote: All the states I'm licensed in, and I believe every other state as well, have laws which require that a provider of professional services to public entities be chosen based on qualifications first, and then a fee agreement reached with that provider. If no agreement can be reached then the next most qualified provider may be tried. And so on. If your school jobs are literally being "bid" it is probably illegal. .
Usually a public entity periodically puts out a "Request for Qualifications" (RFQ) and makes up a roster of maybe a half dozen of the most qualified providers and gets them under contract. When they have a job they select a company from the list - usually on a rotating basis - and ask for a price and scope proposal. If the price and scope are agreed to they issue a work order.
Here in my market you low bid most every project if you want to do any work. Especially public money - state, city, borough and federal government projects. Yes, there are laws but they are ignored and scoffed at. If I bring them up most responses include comments about price control and being taken advantage of.
For these bids the managers require cost breakdown and they try and separate tasks out to cut certain costs. They will also try and add a time and materials clause to the low bid contract just in case you finish with less effort so they can pay less.
In my experience there is no difference in the mind of a client between fixed price and not to exceed other than they may get by even cheaper with not to exceed.
I have talked about qualification based and proposal based practices and the response I get is that the state takes care of qualifications by licensing Land Surveyors and it takes too much time and effort to base the decision on anything other than price.
Surveyors are simply not considered professionals in the State of Alaska in any of the markets I have practiced in over the past 20 years.
Edward Reading, post: 417431, member: 132 wrote: Dave, I'm on my way there next weekend. Can't wait to go to Sierra Nevada!
Eat cheap two nights (way under the allowance) so I can have their Rib Eye, medium rare, one night. If you like steak their rib eye is wonderful.
Don't worry about pairing it...just get a flight of different beers.
Dave Karoly, post: 417517, member: 94 wrote: Eat cheap two nights (way under the allowance) so I can have their Rib Eye, medium rare, one night. If you like steak their rib eye is wonderful.
Don't worry about pairing it...just get a flight of different beers.
Thanks for the info. Don't worry, I'm pretty good at ordering beer. 🙂
Bear Bait, post: 417509, member: 4459 wrote: Here in my market you low bid most every project if you want to do any work. Especially public money - state, city, borough and federal government projects. Yes, there are laws but they are ignored and scoffed at. If I bring them up most responses include comments about price control and being taken advantage of.
For these bids the managers require cost breakdown and they try and separate tasks out to cut certain costs. They will also try and add a time and materials clause to the low bid contract just in case you finish with less effort so they can pay less.
In my experience there is no difference in the mind of a client between fixed price and not to exceed other than they may get by even cheaper with not to exceed.
I have talked about qualification based and proposal based practices and the response I get is that the state takes care of qualifications by licensing Land Surveyors and it takes too much time and effort to base the decision on anything other than price.
Surveyors are simply not considered professionals in the State of Alaska in any of the markets I have practiced in over the past 20 years.
The only way to change that is to start reporting the agencies. No idea how that is done up in your area but around here it's not very difficult at all. If you keep letting the agencies you work for treat you as a contractor then that's what they will continue to do. We are professionals, hence the title, Professional Land Surveyor, not low-ball-contractor-surveyor.
We're flooded with work and have been for 15 years and not 1 job has been a 'low bid scenario'. Professionals should not be providing bids.
WA-ID Surveyor, post: 417520, member: 6294 wrote: The only way to change that is to start reporting the agencies. No idea how that is done up in your area but around here it's not very difficult at all. If you keep letting the agencies you work for treat you as a contractor then that's what they will continue to do. We are professionals, hence the title, Professional Land Surveyor, not low-ball-contractor-surveyor.
We're flooded with work and have been for 15 years and not 1 job has been a 'low bid scenario'. Professionals should not be providing bids.
Easy to say when you are getting work without low bidding. My choice is simply provide lump sum / low bid or do not get an opportunity to do the work for some government agencies. There are plenty of other surveyors here to take the work if I am unwilling to provide this type of service. Most clients are doing price comparisons whether you realize it or not.
I struggled for many years with this ÛÏsurveyors are professionalsÛ opinion trying to convince government agencies and it did nothing but damage my business. Bluntly ÛÒ itÛªs a f@#^*&% joke to think surveyors are considered professionals in some markets / areas.
I am happy that in your market that the professional surveyor still has some credence, my advice would be to celebrate your fortunate situation.
WA-ID Surveyor, post: 417520, member: 6294 wrote: The only way to change that is to start reporting the agencies. No idea how that is done up in your area but around here it's not very difficult at all. If you keep letting the agencies you work for treat you as a contractor then that's what they will continue to do. We are professionals, hence the title, Professional Land Surveyor, not low-ball-contractor-surveyor.
We're flooded with work and have been for 15 years and not 1 job has been a 'low bid scenario'. Professionals should not be providing bids.
Amen! "Bidding" only damages the entire profession and continues to promote the concept that we are a trade. Continuing to do so just perpetuates the problem. If you tell a low-baller he should double his prices he says "Well then I'd only have half the work!" The sad thing is that they just don't get it...
If I had to low-bid projects I would change professions or move somewhere else.
Bear Bait, post: 417525, member: 4459 wrote: Easy to say when you are getting work without low bidding. My choice is simply provide lump sum / low bid or do not get an opportunity to do the work for some government agencies. There are plenty of other surveyors here to take the work if I am unwilling to provide this type of service. Most clients are doing price comparisons whether you realize it or not.
I struggled for many years with this ÛÏsurveyors are professionalsÛ opinion trying to convince government agencies and it did nothing but damage my business. Bluntly ÛÒ itÛªs a f@#^*&% joke to think surveyors are considered professionals in some markets / areas.
I am happy that in your market that the professional surveyor still has some credence, my advice would be to celebrate your fortunate situation.
If you have government agencies that are hiring on a cost basis instead of the qualifications-based selection process required by the Brooks Act you definately need to report them. Here our ASCE State Rep is the person. One call to her and the offending agencies retract their RFP's and reissue and evaluate them properly( until the new purchasing agent comes along.)