Email...Email

Do the appraiser, termite inspector, house inspector, workers who did needed fix-ups on the property to make it salable, and title company get paid at closing?

I would respond with something along the lines of the following: In order to place the survey on our schedule, we require a credit card number and billing information. We are extremely busy so please reply by 5/16/14 or we may not be able to meet your closing deadline. Thanks.

I suggest NEVER releasing plats until the bill is paid in full. Too many of these deals don't ever close.

I would respond suggesting they pay you, you then hand them the plat, then the buyer can be reimburse them at closing. See how they like the idea when it's them shell out up front hoping it works out. 😉

But I'm an instagator that way.

90% of our work is paid at closing. The order, documents received (i.e. title commitments, etc) are proof of contract. There is no stipulation in there wording explaining payments will not be made if deal falls through---worst case you have a base to sue.

When you are not getting paid for your work, it is a local failure of working relationship between banker, title company, realtor and client base that needs to be improved if they wish to do business with the surveyor.

Get the survey order in writing, email or contract and have who pays for the work to make the order.

In hard cases insist in writing that there be an escrow account started with the closing agent and that the funds be payable to you at the completion of the survey or in a timely manner afterwards (3 days max for title company to read your documents and banks to ok money transfers).

Contact closing agent (lawyer, banker or title office) and let them know that the client is putting money into that escrow account and to notify you when you specified amount is in deposit.

Then you can produce the work and deliver your invoice to the closing agent and be assured of payment.

good luck

😉

I thought Andy J had this nailed down:

Require credit card info up front. If they don't close, say, within 30 days, you charge the credit card.

Could you simply respond with the question of who will be responsible for payment if the deal fails to close? I see it as a clear conflict of interest if you payment depends on your survey not bringing to light an issue that might affect the sale.

ww

> Could you simply respond with the question of who will be responsible for payment if the deal fails to close? I see it as a clear conflict of interest if you payment depends on your survey not bringing to light an issue that might affect the sale.
>
> ww

I pretty sure they will say the buyer is responsible, but I believe it to be a 50/50 chance you will get paid if the deal falls through. If the buyer doesn't want to pay, they are not going to pay. To me, saying the buyer is responsible for payment doesn't mean much.

"worst case you have a base to sue."

That's around %5K, and if you win it's no guarantee that they will pay. You have to sue them again to collect the judgement.

That's around $5K, and if you win it's no guarantee that they will pay. You have to get a court order to provide to their employer to garnish their wages. If they are self employed, nevermind - you don't want to go there.

In some states it is possible for a third party (even a spouse) to bond over the judgement for 5% - 10% of the court award.

You probably paid your attorney up front (he wasn't as foolish as you) - and it's probably not a contingency case...

Years have gone by and you are really pissed...

Suing is DEFINITELY the worst case!!

The worst case by all means.

We will accept payment from closing from a few title agents that we trust. In the beginning, we had a few that closed, but due to a breakdown in communications, we didn't get paid from closing and had the fight for the money. The lessons I've learned, make sure you call the closing agent directly and tell them to add your costs to the "HUD" statement. Then, on your invoice, put "Payment from closing" or "Payment from HUD" in large letters and email that to the closing agent. The closing agent is required by law to make sure all leans and potential leans are satisfied or disclosed, so when you notify them directly that you have a unsettled bill and potential lean, they are breaking the law if they don't make sure you are paid at for before closing.

But like I said, we try to avoid this and just get paid up front by the buyer. This is reserved only for people who send us a lot of work and have a solid payment history.

> We will accept payment from closing from a few title agents that we trust. In the beginning, we had a few that closed, but due to a breakdown in communications, we didn't get paid from closing and had the fight for the money. The lessons I've learned, make sure you call the closing agent directly and tell them to add your costs to the "HUD" statement. Then, on your invoice, put "Payment from closing" or "Payment from HUD" in large letters and email that to the closing agent. The closing agent is required by law to make sure all leans and potential leans are satisfied or disclosed, so when you notify them directly that you have a unsettled bill and potential lean, they are breaking the law if they don't make sure you are paid at for before closing.
>
> But like I said, we try to avoid this and just get paid up front by the buyer. This is reserved only for people who send us a lot of work and have a solid payment history.

Pseudo,

Thanks for the info. But are they required if the deal never happens? Where does the title company get the money? I would think if that were the case, all of the title companies would insist on having monies for the pre-closing services escrowed. So far around here, I have only found one that does that.

Simple. Send them your contract with the terms and conditions you are willing to grant. Make sure it is "air-tight" that the buyer (or whomever is ordering survey) will pay no matter if the deal closes or not. Be sure to include a clause about attorney fee's, etc. that may be incurred collecting any overdue/non-paid balance.

> Years have gone by and you are really pissed...

Yep. Every time I see the one bill I got righteously stiffed on, I get mad all over again. I sued and won a judgment, but the guy saw me coming and is judgment-proof.

We have been very fortunate in this situation. When there is a signed contract for purchase and a known closing agent involved we have never lost a penny even when the deal did not close. That might change next month. Anything can happen. One time it came directly out of the pocket of the real estate agent who was handling everything. He lost out on the deal as well because what really happened was that he had the listing to sell the property. The property was something like the west half of a bigger tract that had been owned by a couple who had divorced with one spouse getting the east half and the other spouse getting the west half. Dagnabit, the fell back in love and got remarried. The buyer he had committed to the deal was the ex-spouse. Once they remarried it all came back together, so the sale was off.

I've been licensed since 2002. The first eight years I had a partner and the last four I've been solo. I'll jinx myself by saying this, but in those twelve years I can only think of four times that I wasn't paid in full. Three of those were third-party billing situations. That's a lot of good luck, lots of good clients, avoiding third party billing situations like the plague, and a few cases of relentless hounding of those few who didn't want to pay.

I make it clear to all my clients including title companies, real estate agents, engineers, and architects that if they order a survey they will receive the invoice. If they do not want to be responsible for payment I tell them that I'm happy to let them handle the details of ordering the survey but my contract needs to be addressed to and signed by the person/company responsible for payment. I also do a considerable amount of work on the modern equivalent of a handshake (phone call/text/email) from builders, homeowners, and long term clients. Those who develop a history of slow payment are priced accordingly. Those who don't pay I never work for again.

My Response...

Well, here was my response. We'll see how it goes over (probably never hear from them again).

[Out of state banker I have never heard of],

Unfortunately, I have had difficulties in the past getting payment at closing when real estate deals fall through for one reason or another. This practice has led some to believe that the payments for pre-closing services are contingent on a successful closing. Surveyors in the State of Florida are not permitted to work on a contingency basis, because of the perceived conflict of interest of providing a service of which the payment depends on the outcome. Obviously, this could incentivize not bringing to light issues that might affect a sale which would be harmful to your clients and the public in general. It also potentially exposes the seller to risk of lien on their property if the buyer doesn’t pay. So for professional and financial reasons, I do insist that payment for my services be secured independent of closing to protect everyone’s interests. I can proceed with a credit card on file or a confirmed advanced cost deposit for my services escrowed with the title company. If you have any questions, please feel free to give me a call.

Bow Tie Surveyor

My Response...

Well written. I may want to borrow that sometime.

I can honestly say that since 2005, when I bought my company from my dad, I've only had 2 occasions to pursue a party for non-payment. Requiring a 50% retainer of estimated costs of projects has solved the problem of non-payment. Always dealing directly with the end user of my survey projects has also alleviated a multitude of misunderstandings about payment.