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effective date vs plan/signature date

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jph
 jph
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I seem to have a few of these projects where the client is dragging a$$ on review and comment.?ÿ

I submitted an ALTA survey about 2 months ago, and haven't heard back.?ÿ I have a note stating that the conditions on the site are per June 10, 2020.?ÿ If/when they finally get back to me with comments and the go-ahead to finish, I know that some conditions on the site will have change - earth moving and possibly other things.?ÿ It wasn't my intention to go back to the site.

Does my note about the conditions cover me, or does the date of the plan and my stamp/signature imply something else?


 
Posted : August 21, 2020 5:54 am
FL/GA PLS
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?ÿ

In FL the document is valid on the date signed. You are stating your plat is an accurate representation of what exists on the date accompanying your signature on the document. ?????ÿ

If the owner decides to develop the site and conditions have changed since your survey, thatƒ??s his problem, not yours. ?????ÿ


 
Posted : August 21, 2020 6:33 am
peter-lothian
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Your note is a clear indication of the "limit" of your survey. In this case, a time limit. Anything changing after you surveyed the property is not your problem. The date on the plan is just the date you certified the accuracy of the plan, including the "conditions as of this survey date" note.


 
Posted : August 21, 2020 7:01 am
rover83
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The required ALTA/NSPS certification states when the field work was completed. Regardless of whether you add an additional survey note, the certification makes it clear when you were last out there and, by implication, that the survey does not include changes made after that date.

Posted by: @flga

In FL the document is valid on the date signed. You are stating your plat is an accurate representation of what exists on the date accompanying your signature on the document.

A document may be valid on the date signed, but validity of the document does not change the field work date in the ALTA certification.

For us, it's not uncommon for ALTAs to take 3-4 months, sometimes more, to complete, especially for municipal clients and on properties with lots of potential title issues. That field work date stays the same no matter how many times I sign revisions to graphical changes, Schedule B notes, etc.


 
Posted : August 21, 2020 7:25 am
FL/GA PLS
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@rover83

Iƒ??ve only done a handful of ALTAƒ??s* so shouldnƒ??t have commented. My response was too general.

*Personally I avoided ALTAƒ??s altogether, the profit/aggravation ratio didnƒ??t cut it. ?????ÿ


 
Posted : August 21, 2020 8:02 am

thebionicman
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I love ALTA surveys. The shorter the deadline the better. My fees on those made me blush, all the way to the bank.


 
Posted : August 21, 2020 2:10 pm
brad-ott
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I submit my final survey with the balance due invoice or upon receipt of the balance due payment, depending upon the particular client. ?ÿThen, after that, IF there are any comments, I address those on an hourly basis.

Sometimes there are none at all. ?ÿSometimes there are a few. ?ÿSometimes there are a lot.


 
Posted : August 21, 2020 4:44 pm
FL/GA PLS
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@thebionicman

You're damn lucky then. Where I am the lowest figure ALWAYS gets the job. In the Orlando area title/mortgage/lot/boundary surveys can be had for $175. An ALTA you charge $15k for would bid out here for $4k or less.?ÿ?ÿ


 
Posted : August 22, 2020 10:05 am
jhframe
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Posted by: @thebionicman

The shorter the deadline the better.

I avoid those, too many unknowns that make the deadline impossible to meet.

I'm working on a boundary survey now -- not an ALTA, at least not yet -- that's qualified on one side to the boundary of a 1911 subdivision that was never developed; lots were sold but no improvements were ever built, it's all cultivated land.?ÿ Retracing that subdivision is going to be a challenge in any case, but to compound the matter the subdivision map copy that the County Recorder has isn't legible enough to make out dimensions.?ÿ That means making an appointment at the County Archives to view the original map.?ÿ Making an appointment to access the Archives means leaving a voice message and waiting until I get a call back, then schedule a time a week or two out depending on their workload.?ÿ I left the message a few days ago, and am still waiting on the call back.?ÿ So trying to do a fast turnaround on this job wouldn't have worked.


 
Posted : August 22, 2020 11:02 am
thebionicman
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@jim-frame

Making money isnt always about price, but about knowing what to expect and educating the client. Sometimes that means telling them it cant be done. The key is not letting that be a surprise.?ÿ


 
Posted : August 22, 2020 2:59 pm

jph
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@brad-ott

I like to do that also.?ÿ But I've got a few projects where I need feedback from the clients to fulfill the contract.?ÿ

I'm thinking about wording something in the future about submitting the final product within a certain time-frame after the notice to proceed.?ÿ Anything after has an extra cost.

Even though I try to put enough notes in the dwg, and have my research, etc in order, it's still tougher to go back to a project months later than it would be to generate the final product while you're working on it fresh.


 
Posted : August 24, 2020 6:02 am
thebionicman
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@jph

I had a few of those lessons learned.

Review copies are just that. I will not add the preliminary as a title report item, unless they want to pay the full fee again. The comnent period is also fixed. If you don't provide comments by X date, it is assumed you have none. Last but not least, allowing the client to comment doesn't mean I will change my map.?ÿ

Good luck, Tom?ÿ


 
Posted : August 24, 2020 9:27 am
jph
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@thebionicman

I really like the idea of a fixed comment period, with the assumption.?ÿ I'm going to see about adding that in future.?ÿ Thanks


 
Posted : August 25, 2020 5:49 am
a-harris
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Most everywhere, the date you sign your drawing and other papers is the end date of your responsibility as to what is or not on the property.

Any changes since that date will require revisions and updated survey.

0.02


 
Posted : August 26, 2020 12:33 pm
jph
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@a-harris

Yes, but the signature date is going to be 2-3 months after our fieldwork.?ÿ So I wouldn't want that to be the effective date.?ÿ And I'm not going back to the site to make it current to the signature date.?ÿ

?ÿ


 
Posted : August 27, 2020 5:37 am