Dealing with large clients

Propose to them to have a crew permanently assigned to their projects and charge for stand by time.

You don't want to loose a bunch of clients for one (pushy) client.

That is a darn good idea. Not sure if they will go for it but worth a shot.

> Any tips for dealing with large companies like this?
Having some specifics in the contract. For staking jobs we have a 48 hour notice clause and a survey request form those ordering the work fill out. We often manage quicker turnarounds on a case by case basis. If its a construction job, it's paramount to keep open communication with the site foreman to see where they are at in their schedule. (which they should give you a copy of with regular updates)

Knowing a ballpark estimate of when curb will be poured, utilities laid etc can help you estimate your crew schedule and gives you a warning to contact them when you know something may be coming up. Many times people forget about the amount of time needed to get the wood in the ground.

If it's not construction but some type of development or design work you should again figure out what your client is doing with your work and what their deadlines will be.

Keep a drawer full of standby crew personnel, Will they be available when needed? only in a perfect work but having people interviewed and paperwork complete allows them to simply hit the ground running when called rather than burn time getting into the system and trained up.

Then again there is no perfect solution for bad demanding clients either. You have to weigh that one on your own merits.

I've been in your shoes. Kind of frustrating. I never liked all the insurance BS. But at the end of the day it's all about your contract, and for those types I prefer hourly plus all expenses. Simple really and they'll likely go for it.

Compare those biggies to dealing with a big county or multi state/fed agencies, when you're just trying to help get your client a permit. The left hand never knows what the right hand is doing, and generally you can assume that somebody dropped a ball and/or the other person is on vacation. Fact of life.

Also, anticipation of the next "phone call" is good. Try and head them off at the pass. Besides, if they put you off for a week there is nothing wrong with you putting them off for a day or 2 while you work elsewhere (even if you're not). They do appreciate that you're busy and the integrity that you say "... see ya on Fri...", when they want you on Wed.

$0.02

Aw yes, the promise of phantom projects that never come through, somehow.

The money can be very nice but the B.S. goes on forever.

150 years ago the whip cracking involved a real whip. Today the whip cracking is the threat of dumping yer sorry butt in a heartbeat to find someone else who will be much more agreeable to their terms. You are quite literally a slave to their whims. If you want to eat regularly, you do as the master demands. They have access to the resources to pretty much do whatever they want to do.

A client with needs as opposed to many clients with needs is big item decision for your business plan.

There is give and a lot more take and need of your time at any moment.

Being a company that wants it now attitude is a blessing and a conflict waiting to happen when they do not want the expense of a crew dedicated entirely to them.

You need to find out how much surveying they usually order in a year for the last few years performance to know where to go and what to commit to their needs.

My experience with large companies was to have a yearly contract with them for an expected budget at an expected rate.

They always expect you on short notice for an undetermined amount of time and chew thru many surveyor companies to get what they want when they want.

Your available manpower has to be able to function on budget and at the same time allow you to drop everything to go to their projects at a moments notice.

It is a real juggling act before morning's coffee most of the time.

😉

AGC boilerplate contract will say that you don't get paid for a certain phase until they do (by the Project Owner). Eliminate this clause if possible but you will probably have to accept it. Can you float payroll if you have crew on site for months doing six tens and the contractor is taking 6-8-10 months to process payments?

In my experience, your personal relationship with the Project Manager and the Superintendent will determine how well things go (from change orders, to reasonable scheduling, to timely payment). Remember that you can't force anyone to do anything. If you would file a mechanic's lien for non-payment, or stop working because of non-payment, or take any other firm-footed stance, they only have to question your work. You can't afford to defend it. You can't afford to sue them.

So again, it comes back to "Do you know who you're dealing with?" Do they pay on time? Is the Super reasonable? Is the Project Manager reasonable, etc.?

Lots of sub-contractors get starved out by General Contractors waiting for payment or settling disputes. Ask around about their reputation. One large contractor I worked for would send me checks (for phase completed) before I even got a chance to invoice them. Another starved me damn near to death waiting over a year for payment.

And of course, first rule of business: If it's not in writing, it never happened! Even more true with the big companies...

They will likely not agree. However, explaining that "we can't drop everything on short notice" will be easy to do. Crews cannot be idling.

I would not want to set a precedent, that I know.

> AGC boilerplate contract will say that you don't get paid for a certain phase until they do (by the Project Owner). Eliminate this clause if possible but you will probably have to accept it.

Live in California and you don't have to eliminate it, the state Supreme Court already did. That clause is unenforceable in CA because it's contrary to public policy.

> But at the end of the day it's all about your contract

Sort of. My experience with many companies is that some terms of the contract -- payment due date is a notorious example -- are ignored. They know that the cost of enforcing the terms is prohibitive, so they're able to act with impunity. In some cases it's deliberate, in others it's the result of inertia. The last job I did for a Fortune 500 company took anywhere from 6 to 8 months to get paid, despite a 30-day net clause in the contract. I don't think the AP department was gaming me, I think the project manager's boss kept waiting for feedback from their public-agency client and held my invoices until he got the results approved. The effect on me was the same in either case -- I had to hit my line of credit to keep the lights on.

At one point the PM cc'd me on an email to his boss that said, "This is why we can never get good subconsultants to work for us more than once."

What is crazy is we have no contract. Their official company policy is not to sign contracts for anything less than a million dollars. I provided them a quote and they issued a PO which outlines the terms. So far they pay in a reasonable time my only issue is has been the whole timing thing. They know I am a small outfit with one crew.

“They call today and want us there ASAP. They want to do the stuff they cut out last time and then some. We are on other projects and tell them it will be 10 days or so until we can be there. They are upset we can't be there right away and are talking about hiring someone else.”

I have been in that position for the last 25 years. We work with nationwide production builders. It’s a real pain in the bazooka trying to satisfy never ending “I need it today” requests. If you want this organization as a client you are going have to learn how to “juggle the field schedule”. I frequently have to grab someone from the office and run to the project to put out some perceived emergency. Dedicating a crew won’t work, at least it won’t work for me simply because no client is going to pay for a survey crew sitting idle. Take a close look at your crew scheduling methodology. You should be able to creatively schedule so you can have a crew available on short notice. (2 days for instance). Next you have to “train” whoever your contact is so they realize you are excited about working with them and have their best interests in mind, but as with everything, some things just can’t happen immediately. Take him or her to lunch and encourage your contact to talk about themselves and the company they represent. People love to talk about themselves, and this will help establish a business relationship. It will take considerable effort on your behalf but will be worth it in the long run. At least it did for me. Go for it!
B-)

"Any tips for dealing with large companies like this?"

This may sound flippant. It is not intended that way.

Give serious consideration to walking away from them. I have done so.

I have had that one monster client and now I prefer the ten to thirty smaller clients annually.

Feel free to call me.

"...They call today and want us there ASAP..."

As an owner I find it interesting that every client thinks that they are my most important client.

What does your contract say?

> What does your contract say?

We don't have a contract. Their company policy is not to sign contracts for any work that is less than a million dollars.

I don't really buy the "if you can't make it tomorrow, I'll find someone else who can" line. In some depressed markets this may be true, but I don't think there are very many qualified surveyors (with all of the insurance requirements) who are sitting around waiting for someone to call about a job for tomorrow.

I would also suggest that with any big clients, you figure in some vig (street talk for interest) in your pricing structure. As Jim Frame points out, you probably won't be getting paid for a while, for all of the reasons he points out. When you get paid 6 months down the road, that money won't be worth as much as it was five months ago when you were expecting payment.

We've lost a big corporate client or two because we refused to hurry to a job only to wait for months to be paid. It wasn't really a loss though. Not trying to deter you for courting this client, just telling you to hold to your best interests. No one else will be. It sounds like you have some diversification now. This is crucial to any business in my opinion.

I told contractor today I don't have a crew sitting on the couch waiting on his call . Plan better .

I would walk , they will ruin your other business . Tying you up and demanding this and that . Life is short , stick with who got you there ..

> I don't really buy the "if you can't make it tomorrow, I'll find someone else who can" line. In some depressed markets this may be true, but I don't think there are very many qualified surveyors (with all of the insurance requirements) who are sitting around waiting for someone to call about a job for tomorrow.
>
> I would also suggest that with any big clients, you figure in some vig (street talk for interest) in your pricing structure. As Jim Frame points out, you probably won't be getting paid for a while, for all of the reasons he points out. When you get paid 6 months down the road, that money won't be worth as much as it was five months ago when you were expecting payment.
>
> We've lost a big corporate client or two because we refused to hurry to a job only to wait for months to be paid. It wasn't really a loss though. Not trying to deter you for courting this client, just telling you to hold to your best interests. No one else will be. It sounds like you have some diversification now. This is crucial to any business in my opinion.

Good advice and thanks. As to them finding someone else I think they can. They are willing to pay unusually high prices. I would not put it past them to pay double a going rate to get someone there when they needed it. I think it is the case of a dollar waiting on a dime. What we do costs peanuts compared to other phases of their projects that may get delayed.

As to payment they seem to be good in that regard. First project we did for them we were paid within 30 days. It was ton of hoops to jump through with their billing procedures but they paid.

I do also agree that diversification is key. Years ago I had a large customer that kept us so busy that over time he ended up being about 90% of our work. They paid us well and on time and were a pleasure to work for. Well one day he shut down and and we were in a major bind. I don't want to be in that position again but it is so tempting to do this work for the big client because there is a lot of it and it pays more than our normal rates. Maybe it is time to add more people. That is a whole other set of potential problems though.