DAVIS-BACON AND RELATED ACTS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Page 7:
"The following worker classifications of laborers or mechanics are generally NOT covered
under the Davis-Bacon Act:
...
m) Survey crew members using the equipment for measuring heights, distances, and
bearings."
Are we required to pay DBRA wages on Federal projects? Are we required to produce WH-347 certified payroll, etc.?
https://surveyorconnect.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=211777
I still haven't seen this in any jobs I've bid but I keep looking.
&g https://surveyorconnect.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=211777
>
>
> I still haven't seen this in any jobs I've bid but I keep looking.
I read the thread you linked back when it was fresh while recalling a number of projects where general contractors requested we complete WH-347s. We did so without question.
Lately, a couple of projects we're starting have the GCs requesting certified payroll for DBRA.
Why Not, It Is A Pass Through Cost ?
m) Survey crew members using the equipment for measuring heights, distances, and
bearings."
Put a hub in the ground or mark a column and you are now constructing.
As far as I know the reason is that State requirements for prevailing wage usually exceed Federal.
I never worked prevailing wage, but had experience estimating and setting up field crews for such work.
Paul in PA
Why Not, It Is A Pass Through Cost ?
> m) Survey crew members using the equipment for measuring heights, distances, and
> bearings."
>
> Put a hub in the ground or mark a column and you are now constructing.
>
What exactly are we as surveyors constructing by placing a reference mark or marker?
> As far as I know the reason is that State requirements for prevailing wage usually exceed Federal.
>
> I never worked prevailing wage, but had experience estimating and setting up field crews for such work.
>
>
> Paul in PA
Regarding your question, "Why Not, It Is A Pass Through Cost ?".
Let's just say more pass through costs don't jive with my low overhead concept. 😀
Can you answer my OP questions...
Are we required to pay DBRA wages on Federal projects? Are we required to produce WH-347 certified payroll, etc.?
Thanks!
Why Not, It Is A Pass Through Cost ?
"Put a hub in the ground or mark a column and you are now constructing."
No, I am providing professional services, just as my contract says...
mmmm Bacon!
I would explain why not, however...........
It would be viewed as highly political and I would be banned forever.
TTT
Are we required to pay DBRA wages on Federal projects? Are we required to produce WH-347 certified payroll, etc.?
If a carpenter is doing any layout work on site, you best pay you survey vrew nat the prevailing rate. Fail to do so and an employeee subsequently files a claim againts you costs you big time. Whether or not you pay prevailing rate you best do all required paperwork to prove you complied or did not complay and why. it is my understanding that it been interpretted that survey work prior to construction contracts is what is exempt.
It is also my understanding thta if a carpenter is doing site layout work, that carpenter may file against you the survey employer and get paid prevailing rate for the work your crew did.
If you pay prevailing rate to your crew, it is usually not neccessary to pay them prevailing rate for travel time. If they are paid for a full day at prevailing rate, it is possible that you owe them no travel time. Some pay it anyway to keep the emplyees happy. Whatever you do, do not spring it on your employees at the last minute. Also put your best crew on this project as their bonus, put a lesser crew there and the best boys will be very disgruntled. It gets very complicated which is why the Feds require an excess of forms.
It is best that you discuss with the prime before submitting a bid. You can agree to what he says in writing. If it is later determined that you should pay prevailing wage the prime is responsible for your pass through extra costs. they do not want that trouble at the end of a job so they usually try hard to get it right, since their competitors are in the same boat. If you are a solo professional you yourself are exempt. However do not employ an unlicensed solo, because he is not exempt.
There is good money in this kind of work if you know the system and the rules, but every State or even Union District is different. You are not going to learn the specifics you need on a general board like this. Were I to consider bidding such a project I would invest time and lunch with a Carpenter's Union Shop Steward. Beyond that training is more expensive, not knowing however is the most expensive.
Paul in PA
> If you are a solo professional you yourself are exempt.
That's what I always thought, but I recently learned otherwise, at least as it concerns work for the University of California. A client of long standing, they've implemented an online labor compliance application, and I had to meet with the labor compliance officer to go over the requirements. I learned that for just about every job I do on campus, I have to request an apprentice from the apprenticeship committee (Operating Engineers Local 3, in essence), file certified payroll documents (even when I don't have any payroll) and pay a small amount (pennies, I don't recall how much exactly) for every 5 hours of field work.
I'm not complaining -- I like working for UC -- but it does add a bit of complexity that I wasn't expecting when working alone.
Right-to-Work States Like Florida
Thanks for a couple of non-RTW state perspectives, but I don't believe you're directly addressing wage determinations by DBRA.
Not that RTW or not matters...what say surveyors in RTW States like Florida?
Are we required to pay DBRA wages on Federal projects? Are we required to produce WH-347 certified payroll, etc.?
Why Not, It Is A Pass Through Cost ?
> "Put a hub in the ground or mark a column and you are now constructing."
>
> No, I am providing professional services, just as my contract says...
It doesn't matter if you call setting hubs "cake decorating". If you are setting lines and grades on a federally funded project, you will pay prevailing wage.
CLARIFICATION
> DAVIS-BACON AND RELATED ACTS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
>
> Page 7:
>
> "The following worker classifications of laborers or mechanics are generally NOT covered
> under the Davis-Bacon Act:
> ...
> m) Survey crew members using the equipment for measuring heights, distances, and
> bearings."
>
> Are we required to pay DBRA wages on Federal projects? Are we required to produce WH-347 certified payroll, etc.?
In my original post (OP) above, I asked our distinguished membership if we as land surveyors are required to provide certified payroll forms according to DBRA, or any other law for that matter, when engaged in federally financed and assisted projects. I offered a link to a United States Dept. of Transportation Federal Highway Administration Q & A published August 22, 2013 that essentially answers "no" to those questions.
I understand there are differences between right-to-work and non RTW States regarding "prevailing" wages, etc.
Again, considering the link I posted, are we required to pay DBRA wages on Federally financed or assisted projects? Are we required to produce WH-347 certified payroll, etc.?
If you believe we are required to provide payroll data, please provide a link or reference.
CLARIFICATION
I don’t believe DB has anything to do with state laws, our accountant has told us we are required to pay all prevailing wage rates but Davis bacon does not apply to surveyors as it does not apply to all managerial or professional services on a project. The act was put in place for laborers as I understand it. We have run into much confusion with this issue and in some cases we have paid Davis bacon and filed cert payroll just to make certain people happy. – Maybe that’s where the “state laws” come in.
Just had a webinar in NYS about prevailing wages. I doesn't matter if it is professional services or not (at least in NY)...if there is public money and there is ANY possibility that it may in ANY way relate to a construction...you have to pay prevailing wages...I think it is different in NYC but that is all.
Also check out NSPS for more info on a recent DOL decision concerning Prevailing Wages...I believe you have to pay them on all federal projects now because surveying is now covered.
http://www.pobonline.com/articles/96909-labor-department-expands-davis-bacon-act-on-survey-crews
Straight From the USDOL
A link offered to me from my USDOL Regional Wage Specialist today (the same letter NSPS responded to last June) ...
MEMORANDUM - Applicability of Davis-Bacon labor standards to members of survey crews
On any given Fed project...How would a two-person crew consisting of a party chief and a rover operator, with one or the other carrying a lath bag and hammer fall under DBRA? How about the solo PLS with rover, lath bag, marker, and hammer?
> Just had a webinar in NYS about prevailing wages. I doesn't matter if it is professional services or not (at least in NY)...if there is public money and there is ANY possibility that it may in ANY way relate to a construction...you have to pay prevailing wages...I think it is different in NYC but that is all.
>
> Also check out NSPS for more info on a recent DOL decision concerning Prevailing Wages...I believe you have to pay them on all federal projects now because surveying is now covered.
>
>> http://www.pobonline.com/articles/96909-labor-department-expands-davis-bacon-act-on-survey-crewsbr >
I read the POB article a while back. It would've been useful if they had provided the text or a link to the ruling.
>...I think it is different in NYC but that is all.
>
[sarcasm]In NYC, the Union has a guy come over and break your legs.......:-O [/sarcasm]