Alaska Surveying......
Just looking to get some responses from different folks with varying experiences. I recently performed a mortgage survey for a small metes and bounds parcel along a section line. I researched dates to determine if a section line easement existed, but I did not research it enough (in my opinion) to give a certified determination. I only compared the dates of entry for the original patentee to the dates of the approved survey plat, etc. I did not request a title report or full deed chain.
I was given copies of two previous mortgage surveys from two different surveyors, ech showing a 33' section line easement. I agree with this based on my limited research.
On my survey, I added a note stating the 33' section line easement as shown is per the two previous surveys (noting the survey dates and surveyors names).
My question now is if this is copyright infringement? I did not contact the two surveyors to get permission to include this on my drawing.
Your thoughts?
Ricky1947:), post: 447501, member: 7440 wrote: My question now is if this is copyright infringement?
In my opinion, no. First, very little -- if any -- of a survey map that depicts factual information is copyrightable. Second, you're not reproducing the other surveyors' work, you're merely referencing it.
In the US, copyright only covers the way ideas are expressed, not the ideas themselves. So if you didn't copy the other surveyor's text word for word, you should be OK.
My question now is if this is copyright infringement? I did not contact the two surveyors to get permission to include this on my drawing.
As the others have said, no.
Look here for more detail:
https://umaine.edu/svt/wp-content/uploads/sites/105/2012/11/CopyrightBasics.pdf
Ken
I think that your note about a depicted easement being per some other survey isn't going to be any comfort to you if the stuff hits the fan.
It is common practice here to list the surveys upon which we have based our current work, e.g., Survey Book C, page 102, 1983 boundary survey by C.M. Watson.
I agree with Jim Frame.
Me too,
I can not see how any surveyor can copyright their procedures and methods as they are supposed to be an extension of what is required in the PLSS Manuel and perhaps they use their own style to word their descriptions and maybe some special characters on drawings.
Apart from their unique company LOGO or drawing TEMPLATE, what is there to copyright.
We all work under the same umbrella.
Ricky1947:), post: 447501, member: 7440 wrote: Alaska Surveying......
Just looking to get some responses from different folks with varying experiences. I recently performed a mortgage survey for a small metes and bounds parcel along a section line. I researched dates to determine if a section line easement existed, but I did not research it enough (in my opinion) to give a certified determination. I only compared the dates of entry for the original patentee to the dates of the approved survey plat, etc. I did not request a title report or full deed chain.
I was given copies of two previous mortgage surveys from two different surveyors, ech showing a 33' section line easement. I agree with this based on my limited research.
On my survey, I added a note stating the 33' section line easement as shown is per the two previous surveys (noting the survey dates and surveyors names).My question now is if this is copyright infringement? I did not contact the two surveyors to get permission to include this on my drawing.
Your thoughts?
I don't think it's copyright infringement for the same reasons mentioned by others. But because of what a mortgage survey is explicitly (per our ASPLS standards), I don't know that it could really be referenced for the determination of a section line easement. The reason I say this is that we have the "this is not a boundary survey..." note recommended by ASPLS along with the fact that we are a recording state and mortgage surveys are transaction-supporting documents that are not required to be recorded.
This isn't a criticism of your survey, because it sounds to me like you've met the standard of care for a mortgage survey in our state, but I tend to think that your research results will have to stand on their own because of what the previous mortgage surveys really are (or aren't). Just my 0.02.
I agree with Frozennorth. I wouldn't base the existance of an easement on a previous plot plan. But, I also wouldn't do one without a title report. All it takes is one ancient easement running through the house for you to he screwed.
I did one that had a long abandoned Tannana Valley Railroad ROW running through a house.
Jim Frame, post: 447511, member: 10 wrote: In my opinion, no. First, very little -- if any -- of a survey map that depicts factual information is copyrightable. Second, you're not reproducing the other surveyors' work, you're merely referencing it.
Jim,
I don't believe that is correct. ALL maps are works of art and are automatically copyrighted by their mere creation. The information expressed on them is not copyrightable, but the map is.
The author of the OP did not infringe on a copyright by referencing data shown thereon.
Jim in AZ, post: 447886, member: 249 wrote: The information expressed on them is not copyrightable, but the map is.
That's not the conclusion I drew when I researched this some years back. I was contemplating a lawsuit against an architectural firm that had included a topo survey of mine in their plan set without my permission or that of my client. I decided that the suit was likely to be dismissed because the map wasn't copyrightable, so I didn't pursue it.
Jim
I believe that while the facts are not copyrightable, your depiction is copyrightable. For another firm to use your work without permission is an issue. It is your original work subject to a copyright.
jmcnicholspls, post: 447898, member: 849 wrote: I believe that while the facts are not copyrightable, your depiction is copyrightable.
One of the documents I consulted in my research is titled "Copyright for Surveyors" by Knud Hermansen. Its conclusions are in general agreement with the other reference materials I reviewed. I offer the following excerpt for your consideration:
Simply stated, a retracement plat, if drawn from a properly performed retracement survey, should be a close if not exact copy of the original surveyor??s plans or notes. The same analogy could be applied to the revised description prepared by the surveyor from a retracement survey. In addition, a topographic plat would not ordinarily be protected since it merely shows a compilation of facts.
Jim Frame, post: 447938, member: 10 wrote: One of the documents I consulted in my research is titled "Copyright for Surveyors" by Knud Hermansen. Its conclusions are in general agreement with the other reference materials I reviewed. I offer the following excerpt for your consideration:
Jim,
I have had Mr. Hermanson's opinion for years, along with numerous other opinions and statements. (including copyright attorneys. Knud's opinion conflicts with the copyright laws of the United States of America, which states that ALL graphic works are automatically copyrighted merely upon creation. I respect Knud immensely, but I think that the U.S. Copyright law stems from a higher authority.
Jim in AZ, post: 447994, member: 249 wrote: ALL graphic works are automatically copyrighted merely upon creation
The graphical expression is copyrighted, but none of the factual content is.