This, too, shall pass.?ÿ We are riding the peak of the roller coaster and the peak only goes so far before it heads down.?ÿ A variety of causes is lengthening the peak, several based on Fed dollars, but other things such as estate planning are providing quite a number of projects thanks to the pandemic.
@holy-cow?ÿ ?ÿThis will be the third peak I've ridden since being solo. The difference this time is that every corporate firm in the South is NOT opening a branch office here. The personnel required has left, at home or unwilling.?ÿ This makes the crest more a like a extended plateau. I wish it end quickly, others relish the built-in profitability. Poor service, delayed product and elevated cost are now common. There are a lot of professional considerations that saying "NO" and rising your price doesn't solve.
@fairbanksls and hire help
Or work in an area with brutal winters which shuts down survey work 'till spring.?ÿ For several years as a newbie I worked for a firm which laid off its crews once the area was snowbound so we worked as Ski Instructors/Ski Patrol in winter, a 3+ month vacation.?ÿ We even formed a ski racing team called "UI racing." (Unemployment Insurance ???? )
Of course seasonal employment isn't a career so I "woke" and relocated to year round employment, but as a fresh out of college surveyor it was fun times.
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Charge more. Up the rates until the phone call reach the rate you want. Fire the clients that cause you the most pain.?ÿ
May it never end.
The upward pressure on salaries is EXACTLY what we need to fix the "problem" of not enough PLS's. Once it becomes lucrative again, then smart people will get into the business.
i keep thinking that one little political hiccup and we return to 2008 when the phone suddenly stopped ringing as if the lines were cut- but the phone does keep ringing. I'm swimming upstream and I defray the burnout also by turning down work. I stick to my shortlist - especially those who, for some reason - keep calling me back , I try very hard not to commit to rush jobs. I also avoid shoppers and first timers. even then, some occasionally tire of waiting and they manage to find others "because I need to know when you will be done" - good riddance. this has been an amazing boom - I still prefer solo - there is no time for management of employees - even if there were any to hire!
@dmyhill?ÿ
To a point, but if you burn out all the existing staff to get to those great salaries the profession may have imploded. Also the true going rate is set during the low times and surveyors don't seem as good at holding that line as engineers or lawyers from what I've seen.
At school in our professional studies class our professor taught us a system where you rank your clients on an A to D scale; those with realistic expectations/experience of what they're asking for and very prompt payers sit at the top, price shoppers, slow payers and nasty contractors who are only after your insurance at the bottom of the pile.?ÿ You also generalise client types so you work out who you will be answering the phone to, for example price shoppers ringing on their lunch break are best avoided.
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In this market you don't even answer the phone for C/D clients and you point out to your B clients that if they don't become A's then here is the number of someone else nearby.
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There is no business or mental health sense in trying to answer every call, if they really want your services they'll find someone who has used you to get your email and then you might consider seeing want they want. We have a solo guy in town with no phone number in directory and no with presence yet clients still find him.
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Word of mouth referrals almost always better then direct calls and you can often size them up based on who recommended you to them.
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Also if everyone is so desperate to have their job done they still be there if you take two weeks well earned holiday somewhere with no cell coverage or internet. No client is more important than your well-being.
This profession has been the essence of who I am, personally and professionally.?ÿ
Today I??ve about come to my witts end. I??m tired. Really tired. I haven??t had a real vacation since 2012, save a 3 day weekend. I??m so tired of jumping through the hoops that my clients set up. My motto has always been, under promise and over deliver. ?? to what end, my death or worse, my divorce
don??t get me wrong, I enjoy what I do, but the last several years have been really rough. I can??t handle the demand anymore of my small firm. I turn down more work than I can do. It??s been overwhelming for so long now. There??s no help out there.?ÿ
Does anybody want my company ?
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This is what I'm afraid will happen to my boss one day. I've had a lot of bosses the past 22 years and I have the best one now.?ÿ I'd rather that not change.?ÿ
You need to be happy though, if you feel it's time to sell then it probably is.?ÿ
To a point, but if you burn out all the existing staff to get to those great salaries the profession may have imploded.
Well, from what I've seen so far in my career I don't really care if these (most likely) overworked/underpaid lowballers get burned out of the profession.?ÿ I'm working with a survey manager now who isn't afraid to tell people to pound sand if they can't or won't pay, and I'll tell ya what it's incredibly refreshing.
@bstrand I??m not offended that you refer to those (these) small firms as lowballers. What I am offended by is, someone who obviously has a good head on is shoulders, speaking to matters that??s above one??s pay grade.?ÿ
moreover, I work longer and harder than any of my employees, everyday, 7 days a week for the last 2 plus years. I pay my guys overtime, when they work it, and I do not demand it, every holiday is paid time off, they??ve had over 20 days paid vacation over the last 18 months, I??ve had CoVid and had to shut my office down for 10 days and I did not take the PPP. I charge much more for what I do, than my nearest compatriot and I??ve given my guys bonuses and raises of the likes unseen in this professions history.
I would offer you a position if you would take it, however I??m looking for a licensed professional, that I??m willing to pay north of 120k per year and take over the firm wholly in 5 years. But I guess you??re not qualified. In the mean time I??ll just continue going ILC??s at three times the cost it was 2 years ago. I used to charge $225 for a typical residential property, last month my average was near $800. And ISP??s 2 years ago were around $900, today I??m upwards of 3k for just a small residential parcel, and we can??t get them down fast enough. Did I mention, that I??ve got over a month backlog??ÿ
so, I??m not sure who you??re referring as a Lowballer, but, I??m sure that it??s not me?ÿ
@bstrand well to be honest.?ÿ Until you get from working for to self employed.?ÿ You will never understand.?ÿ The game changes, when you have to pay employees and bills.?ÿ It's much easier to play the arm chair quarterback when the only skin in the game is your own.?ÿ Not saying I do, but if I ever have to lowball a price to make payroll, don't shame me for doing so, I have mouths to feed.
My ex-wife worked for a consultant who either owned his own company or was is a partnership for years.?ÿ He made excellent money.?ÿ His problem was that he looked at any minute he wasn't billing someone for the same as dumping your wallet into a trash bin and walking away.?ÿ He was working seven days a week plus sometimes working straight through for two or three days at a time before he would crash.?ÿ He was under thirty-five with a serious ulcer.?ÿ His kids barely recognized him.?ÿ All that was important was having more money.?ÿ And more money.?ÿ But, he allowed no time for spending it to benefit himself or his family.?ÿ Did I mention he made excellent money.
He could have billed out less than half as much time as he did and still have been considered wealthy and successful.
What a sad person.
We need to stop sometimes long enough to evaluate what really matters and why.?ÿ Having the fanciest casket is not a practical life goal.
@holy-cow?ÿ I lived that way for eight years, always on the road surveying the world.?ÿ One day my son, who was four years old at the time, asked me "Daddy, when am I going to get to see your house?"?ÿ That day I started looking for a new job.?ÿ Now I work a 9 to 5 and travel when I want to.?ÿ I don't make near the money that I used to, but it is totally worth it to have the time with my son.
Cue Harry Chapin
@pls
Was working out of town for a few weeks so trying to respond to some things.
I'm not calling you a lowballer at all.?ÿ In fact, I don't think being a lowballer has anything to do with company size.?ÿ It sounds like you treat your guys well, and that's good to hear.?ÿ I would just remind you that the overtime pay is not voluntary, and overtime benefits you (the owner) rather than your employee, as you are getting a half-price employee.
I'm not sure what ILCs and ISPs are, but if the price increases mean people are learning the value of land surveying services then that's great to hear.
I don't have dependents or employees to pay for but having those things doesn't give a potential client an excuse to devalue the work that I do, imo.
I??m not offended one way or the other. And more over, I respect you??re feedback. ?ÿI??ve been doing this thang called surveying for a long time now. And I??ve got think skin and I don??t really care anymore. As I believe that my reputation speaks for itself, I??m a good surveyor and gosh darn, people like me.
One thing I must say is, that I don??t like construction surveyin -in fact, I HATE IT?ÿ
I don??t like being told what to do or when to do it. Although I usually jump through the hoops that my client??s ?ÿsetup for me.?ÿ
ive always been afraid of losing a potential job, therefor I??ve been ??competitive? in my pricing. It??s done me well through the years and I??ve made a career of it.
but now I see that there is a shortage of PLS??s out there and not many new ones coming in. It??s now basic supply and demand. Rather than turning down jobs, I??ve been sending out proposals at crazy #??s and they??re biting.?ÿ
I guess that I??ve been that low baller through the years?? we??ll maybe, maybe not. What they say is that a product is worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. I guess if I can get 3.5k for a residential property survey in the city that cost a mere $850 three years ago, I??m the fool, or, maybe, I just hit the lottery?ÿ