I am a surveyor who works for a small PA firm. The firm is fairly new and consisting of a few licensed engineers, draftsman and myself. Since the company is new and trying to generate workload the owner (licensed engineer) has resorted to taking on work out of state (NY, NJ, MA). None of the work requires boundary certification, it is all existing topo, for storm system, paving, curbing, ADA area restoration or replacement. The "Gray area" his theory is that I am employed by the company and could do this work as an employee of the company "under his supervision" since he is licensed in those states. Any thoughts, unethical, illegal? I fear i could jeopardize my PA licensure to make him a buck.
Thanks.
Linewalker_99, post: 441088, member: 12939 wrote: Any thoughts, unethical, illegal?
Not illegal. Not unethical. Just be careful what claims and statements you make while being a technician in those outside states. Don't give out any cards that list you as being a PLS, for example.
Portland is right on the border with Washington and people licensed in one state but not the other are passing back and forth all the time.
Check the licensing statutes in the other states to ensure that your boss' license authorizes him to be in responsible charge of the work he has you doing. Also check to see what areas of survey practice are defined as requiring a license.
Want Evan said.
PA is kind of unique in the mid-Atlantic by differentiating between land surveys and engineering surveys.
While the work you are describing falls under the definition of engineering surveys in Pennsylvania, in Maryland and Delaware (I can't speak for the other states you list) it's land surveying. Here in Maryland we have specific guidelines to deal with overlapping practice for design professionals, it it all boils down to whether the professional who oversees the work has the experience and education to do so.
In your example, unless the PE has experience in actually performing topographic surveys himself, and is in responsibile charge (i.e. he's the one making the final call on the methods and procedures and performing the QA/QC, not you) then I'd venture to guess that if push came to shove the board would come down on the side of you are practicing land surveying without a license. It would really be a case by case decision based on the individuals involved and their tasks on the project.
Maryland Overlapping Practive Guide
http://brackenengineering.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=3aF-cOgsDRw=&tabid=114&mid=561
As an example of the way surveying and engineering are viewed here, the common practice for storm drain / storm water as-built surveys is that the municipality requires two certifications on the plans. The surveyor certifies to the measurements, location, volumes, topography, etc. and the engineer certifies that the facilities as constructed will perform as designed.
From the NY licensing website,
"The practice of the profession of land surveying is defined as practicing that branch of the engineering profession and applied mathematics which includes the measuring and plotting of the dimensions and areas of any portion of the earth, including all naturally placed and man or machine-made structures and objects thereon, the lengths and directions of boundary lines, the contour of the surface and the application of rules and regulations in accordance with local requirements incidental to subdivisions for the correct determination, description, conveying and recording thereof or for the establishment or re-establishment thereof."
But also goes on to say:
This article shall not be construed to affect or prevent the following, provided that no title, sign, card or device shall be used in such manner as to tend to convey the impression that the person rendering such service is a professional engineer or a land surveyor licensed in this state or is practicing engineering or land surveying:
a. Offering to practice in this state as a professional engineer or land surveyor by any person not a resident of, and having no established place of practice in this state, provided that such person is legally qualified for such practice in his own state or country;
e. Making of surveys by professional engineers, except that the determination of real property boundaries may be done only by a licensed land surveyor;
Perhaps a call to the Office of Professions would be my best course of action.
Thanks for the replies.
FYI you can get a 30-day temporary license in NY.
You really only need a license in NY to do a boundary survey. From my limited experience with engineered plans they are only signed by a surveyor to certify the boundary, but every jurisdiction is different and all bets are off in NYC.
Joe the Surveyor, post: 441098, member: 118 wrote: FYI you can get a 30-day temporary license in NY.
What?! Surely you jest, sir!
Jim in AZ, post: 441145, member: 249 wrote: What?! Surely you jest, sir!
Nope.
http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/pels/pe30daypermit.htm
And don't call me Surely!!! hehe.
I believe we had the 'I'm shocked a couple of states grant temporary licenses" thread about nine months ago
Yes, but I'm still shocked to learn of such frivolity that is a bane on our profession.
James Fleming, post: 441149, member: 136 wrote: I believe we had the 'I'm shocked a couple of states grant temporary licenses" thread about nine months ago
Perhaps - but if I saw it then I was so shocked that I considered myself to be delusional and dismissed it from my mind. I still don't believe it, but I don't want to get into a discussion about it.
Jim in AZ, post: 441174, member: 249 wrote: I still don't believe it, but I don't want to get into a discussion about it.
Inquiring minds want to know just what your concern with this practice was/is?
ARS Mine Surveyor, post: 441104, member: 12913 wrote: You really only need a license in NY to do a boundary survey. From my limited experience with engineered plans they are only signed by a surveyor to certify the boundary, but every jurisdiction is different and all bets are off in NYC.
But does the firm have a COA to work in New York? That could be where the water begins to get hot.
Linewalker_99, post: 441088, member: 12939 wrote: I am a surveyor who works for a small PA firm. The firm is fairly new and consisting of a few licensed engineers, draftsman and myself. Since the company is new and trying to generate workload the owner (licensed engineer) has resorted to taking on work out of state (NY, NJ, MA). None of the work requires boundary certification, it is all existing topo, for storm system, paving, curbing, ADA area restoration or replacement. The "Gray area" his theory is that I am employed by the company and could do this work as an employee of the company "under his supervision" since he is licensed in those states. Any thoughts, unethical, illegal? I fear i could jeopardize my PA licensure to make him a buck.
Thanks.
Take the time and read the regs in those states. Educate yourself before you make an issue if the situation. More than likely you will have some states where you are OK and others where you are not OK. Either way you need to be comfortable as any wrongdoings brought to light will reflect on you everywhere you hold or plan to hold a license.
From my perspective, be sure you have the appropriate business licenses to practice in all the adjoining states, and or cities!
