Who wants a wider ROW?
If no one wants that (the city); then petition for vacation and clean it up.
It usually takes four meetings to get it done: You will need to have a surveyor (sounds like that's done) prepare a map including all utilities, improvements, driveways, ect. Then inform all stake holders, get them to sign off and it's done after the city approves it.
Lots of leg work but you can do most of it.
That is the best way to resolve this.
120 years of researching city meeting minutes is a heavy lift. are you very sure this vacation never happened?
If a survey is filed in a government office that interacts with the agency that assesses real estate taxes, it's possible the value of the property will be changed to reflect the area shown on the survey. The area currently in use for real estate taxes could be pretty accurate or just a wild guess. In any case there is a good chance of some change in the property tax.
What dictates the actual Right-of-Way in a city?
The answer to your question Is in how, when and by who the ROW was created.
You need to do the research.
@Dan-Dunn is absolutely correct.
Was the road R/W created prior to the "city map" by an order of the county commission or city council? And then later monumented on the ground? Hereabouts, roads created by the county were monumented along the centerline only and as the area was settled and densified, others came along and monumented the R/W. Sometimes correctly, sometimes not. The original R/W location and width holds even when subsequent monumentation runs contrary.
In the same vein, was the road created by a series of deeds from landowners to the public and later monumented by others? The answer would be in the wording of the deeds.
Or, is this "city map" actually a recorded subdivision plat that created the road along with the lots and blocks along the road? And are the monuments original... set by the surveyor who constructed the plat? If that's the case, your state may have case law that will give you guidance. But it has to be court cases from your state.
See the attached document "Street monumented different than plat-Boundary Control and Legal Principles 3rd Add by Brown.pdf", for one author's take on this situation.
I've posted this before. Supreme Court of Iowa held survey on the ground controls over plat. A couple notations are important.
1) Court held that the monuments accepted by the owners although unknown if they were original were considered as such.
It is true that there is no specific identification by any witness who saw the stakes at the time of the original survey. But it is not legally necessary that the proof of the identity should be in that form.
2) The same laws that apply to the owners apply to the city with respect to width of street.
If the monuments upon the ground are controlling as to the property owners, there is nothing in this record to indicate that they are not likewise controlling upon the city. In this view, the mistake or discrepancy, if any, has operated equitably upon all.
The disagreement, is about if the map or the iron pipes (that may or may not be old survey markers) rule the final outcome.
That is a decision for the judge. If the city isn't using the extra 10', they could vacate it. I am not sure if you could do a quiet title for the entire street, but perhaps you could for your parcel. But, if you are fighting city hall, their pockets might be deeper than yours.
Honestly, I do not care so much which way this falls. I am just trying to keep peace on my street and in my town, and need some hard proof of the correct answer to try to resolve the situation.
Have you asked the city, public works, engineer, etc?
For the group: Could a quiet title action be useful here.
If the official city map was filed at around the time of the completion and shows a 60' ROW (or easement), it really does not matter what pipes set later in time yield in width as you can't take land from a governmental agency.
To make the 50' ROW (or easement) legal, the city would have to abandon the 10' by official action. Even then, reversion rights have the possibility of being complicated.
If the official city map was filed at around the time of the completion and shows a 60′ ROW (or easement), it really does not matter what pipes set later in time yield in width as you can’t take land from a governmental agency.
To make the 50′ ROW (or easement) legal, the city would have to abandon the 10′ by official action. Even then, reversion rights have the possibility of being complicated.
I agree with this...what is more interesting to me would be the reasoning that led a surveyor to a different conclusion. The preponderance of evidence seems clear.
Is this property in the Highland Park area of Dallas County, TX?
What would the answer be in the Highland Park area of Dallas county TX?
Considerably more expensive given that there are dozens of $5M-$20M homes/real estate in that area.
Since you want to be snarky, nobody managed to glean that the OP is interested in, "...what, in the end, legally determines the right-of-way/point of beginning"
People worried about POB's in high $ areas that have already hired 2 surveyors that agree on a map, but not where these pins came from, that claim to want to keep the peace in the neighborhood, but are looking for case law to substantiate an answer are likely not telling you the complete story, and most of you step right into the trap, everytime.
But I guess that could apply to 123 Main Street, Anywhere, State 90210.
The burden of proof lies on the preponderance of evidence.
From the OP's statements I might very well advise them to get the 10' of street vacated. Cities will often be onboard as long as utilities are protected with easements if necessary. We've done dozens of vacations.
It's a process but not a difficult one, it will be much cheaper than any court action.
Vacations must be well understood if it's proposed. If the street was created by a plat with lots on either side, then vacating two 5' strips on each side of the street will eliminate city ownership in those strips and the lots on both sides will fully extend to the limits of the vacation. If the street was created with lots on one side, and lots on the opposite side were created at a later date, then only the original lots will be able to exert their reversionary rights, it may create a 5' strip of land blocking lots from street access.
Same if 10' on one side is vacated, it can result in that land being owned by the lots on the opposite side of the street.
Statutes here require the landowners to start the process, the city or county then reviews and either accepts the proposal or rejects it.
are likely not telling you the complete story, and most of you step right into the trap, everytime.
Almost always the case here. If they wanted real answers, they would give specifics and post the docs. People that post here cannot fathom the depth and quality of free analysis that our twisted minds force us to provide because that is what we do.
No, typically questions are posted here with a slanted set of facts so the OP can try and believe that they are in the right in the current beliefs.
But as far as "trap"? That is just silly. This is fun for us.
We have professional surveyors involved.
I'm curious as to "how" involved multiple surveyors are. I did not read where an actual boundary survey of the subject property has been done.
