Nate The Surveyor, post: 452668, member: 291 wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davidsonville_Historic_State_Park
Davidsonville Historic State Park looks like it will do nicely.
I want to pick 2 dates, 2 wks apart. IF the first one gets rained out, then we use the second one.
Here is what is there:
https://www.reserveamerica.com/camping/davidsonville-historic-state-park/r/facilityDetails.do?contractCode=AR&parkId=900028Is this the kind of place you would like?
I'm a surveyor, so I am comfortable most anywhere... Except at the dentist or doctors office!
Nate
The place is fine with me. Camp, fish, canoe, sip of moonshine by the campfire - oh and GPS too. I can drive down on Friday Nov. 10th and leave out on the 11th? in the PM.
I think I'll come friday too.
This should be fun.
Maybe we could do this once a year.
Surveyor Campout.
Find North Star.
Check declination.
Fish a bit.
Nate
And for us fellows who are done with sleeping on the ground...
https://www.wyndhamhotels.com/days-inn/pocahontas-arkansas/days-inn-suites-pocahontas/overview?CID=LC:DI::GGL:RIO:National:12426&iata=00065402
[MEDIA=youtube]MLv_ra_5ynI[/MEDIA]
DDSM
Dan B. Robison, post: 452763, member: 34 wrote: And for us fellows who are done with sleeping on the ground...
https://www.wyndhamhotels.com/days-inn/pocahontas-arkansas/days-inn-suites-pocahontas/overview?CID=LC:DI::GGL:RIO:National:12426&iata=00065402DDSM
Nice place. Stayed there for just about a year.
Used this for control.
The NGS Data Sheet
See file dsdata.pdf for more information about the datasheet.
PROGRAM = datasheet95, VERSION = 8.12.3
1 National Geodetic Survey, Retrieval Date = OCTOBER 27, 2017
GE1193 ***********************************************************************
GE1193 HT_MOD - This is a Height Modernization Survey Station.
GE1193 CBN - This is a Cooperative Base Network Control Station.
GE1193 PACS - This is a Primary Airport Control Station.
GE1193 DESIGNATION - POCAPORT
GE1193 PID - GE1193
GE1193 STATE/COUNTY- AR/RANDOLPH
GE1193 COUNTRY - US
GE1193 USGS QUAD - MANSON (1965)
GE1193
GE1193 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL
GE1193 ______________________________________________________________________
GE1193* NAD 83(2011) POSITION- 36 14 43.65703(N) 090 57 20.48578(W) ADJUSTED
GE1193* NAD 83(2011) ELLIP HT- 54.582 (meters) (06/27/12) ADJUSTED
GE1193* NAD 83(2011) EPOCH - 2010.00
GE1193* NAVD 88 ORTHO HEIGHT - 82.96 (meters) 272.2 (feet) GPS OBS
GE1193 ______________________________________________________________________
GE1193 NAVD 88 orthometric height was determined with geoid model GEOID03
GE1193 GEOID HEIGHT - -28.323 (meters) GEOID03
GE1193 GEOID HEIGHT - -28.306 (meters) GEOID12B
GE1193 NAD 83(2011) X - -85,897.510 (meters) COMP
GE1193 NAD 83(2011) Y - -5,149,269.983 (meters) COMP
GE1193 NAD 83(2011) Z - 3,750,224.449 (meters) COMP
GE1193 LAPLACE CORR - -0.77 (seconds) DEFLEC12B
GE1193
GE1193 Network accuracy estimates per FGDC Geospatial Positioning Accuracy
GE1193 Standards:
GE1193 FGDC (95% conf, cm) Standard deviation (cm) CorrNE
GE1193 Horiz Ellip SD_N SD_E SD_h (unitless)
GE1193 -------------------------------------------------------------------
GE1193 NETWORK 0.41 0.74 0.18 0.15 0.38 -0.02203613
GE1193 -------------------------------------------------------------------
GE1193 Click here for local accuracies and other accuracy information.
GE1193
GE1193
GE1193.This mark is at Nick Wilson Field Airport (M70)
GE1193
GE1193.The horizontal coordinates were established by GPS observations
GE1193.and adjusted by the National Geodetic Survey in June 2012.
GE1193
A very safe place to leave a base station.
Just got off the phone with Ben DeClerk, local surveyor, and he reminded me that Saturday Nov. 11 IS OPENING DAY OF GUN SEASON FOR DEER...that turnout would be slim from his bunch and to WEAR PROTECTIVE VESTS...I don't know if he ment hunting vests or Kevlar.
DDSM
Dan B. Robison, post: 452767, member: 34 wrote: Just got off the phone with Ben DeClerk, local surveyor, and he reminded me that Saturday Nov. 11 IS OPENING DAY OF GUN SEASON FOR DEER...that turnout would be slim from his bunch and to WEAR PROTECTIVE VESTS...I don't know if he ment hunting vests or Kevlar.
DDSM
Kevlar won't stop a High Powered Rifle!
But, if it makes you feel better, go for it.
😀
Would Nov 4 work any better?
I'm ok with the 11th.
thank you
Nate
I am wondering how you are going to test receivers?
I do a lot of this and it is pretty difficult to make a determination without at least 50 occupations of a point per receiver, I would suggest that you are going to need to alternate between the devices under test for at least 6 hours or more. On some tests, I have run 500 dumps per receiver over 10 hour periods. A 20-minute slice of constellation really won't tell you much. If one of the receivers under test is slow to fix, then you won't be able to get 200 dumps in an 8 hour period.
I use a robot. There is a 3-minute movie at the bottom of this page: https://ig8g.com/pictures.htm that shows it in demo mode, in a completely open environment. My robot computes all of the statistics after every test round, it also graphs all of the fixes (X, Y, dXY, H), the range of fixes, the standard deviation, and the time to fix in real time as the test proceeds.
How long will you wait for receivers to fix? (I know that this depends on how heavy the canopy is) Will you wait more than 2-minutes, 20-minutes? (I usually set the maximum wait time to 90 seconds.) How will you score a receiver round that never fixes?
Is time to fix even important? (It will be if one receiver fixes in 30 seconds and another takes 10-minutes, round after round.)
After a receiver fixes, will you wait a few seconds to make sure the fix is held, or will you immediately store the first point? (I recommend requiring that a fix be held for 5-seconds and meet a HRMS and VRMS tolerance.)
Having done these tests, the test that matters is matched base-rover pairs under moderately heavy canopy. (That movie was made in the wide open so the receivers fix in less than 15 seconds.)
From my experience, I don't think that you will be able to form an opinion that is not under-sampled by occupying a point a few times here and a few times there. You need to do a lot of occupations over a long period of time.
Driving out with our robot is not out of my comfort zone (my parents used to live just up the road), it is only 21-hours. Would you be willing to commit to a longer robotic test with a maximum of 4 heads? Can you get NMEA GGA and GST sentences out of the LS at 2 Hz or faster?
Mark, I think they are just looking for a "boys night out" type of thing...;)
Nate The Surveyor, post: 452793, member: 291 wrote: Would Nov 4 work any better?
I'm ok with the 11th.
thank you
Nate
The 4th is no good for me. I am taking the Cub Scouts camping that weekend. I am not too concerned with the hunters. We don' t need to be deep in the woods, just some canopy.
Mark Silver, post: 452802, member: 1087 wrote: I am wondering how you are going to test receivers?
I do a lot of this and it is pretty difficult to make a determination without at least 50 occupations of a point per receiver, I would suggest that you are going to need to alternate between the devices under test for at least 6 hours or more. On some tests, I have run 500 dumps per receiver over 10 hour periods. A 20-minute slice of constellation really won't tell you much. If one of the receivers under test is slow to fix, then you won't be able to get 200 dumps in an 8 hour period.
I use a robot. There is a 3-minute movie at the bottom of this page: https://ig8g.com/pictures.htm that shows it in demo mode, in a completely open environment. My robot computes all of the statistics after every test round, it also graphs all of the fixes (X, Y, dXY, H), the range of fixes, the standard deviation, and the time to fix in real time as the test proceeds.
How long will you wait for receivers to fix? (I know that this depends on how heavy the canopy is) Will you wait more than 2-minutes, 20-minutes? (I usually set the maximum wait time to 90 seconds.) How will you score a receiver round that never fixes?
Is time to fix even important? (It will be if one receiver fixes in 30 seconds and another takes 10-minutes, round after round.)
After a receiver fixes, will you wait a few seconds to make sure the fix is held, or will you immediately store the first point? (I recommend requiring that a fix be held for 5-seconds and meet a HRMS and VRMS tolerance.)
Having done these tests, the test that matters is matched base-rover pairs under moderately heavy canopy. (That movie was made in the wide open so the receivers fix in less than 15 seconds.)
From my experience, I don't think that you will be able to form an opinion that is not under-sampled by occupying a point a few times here and a few times there. You need to do a lot of occupations over a long period of time.
Driving out with our robot is not out of my comfort zone (my parents used to live just up the road), it is only 21-hours. Would you be willing to commit to a longer robotic test with a maximum of 4 heads? Can you get NMEA GGA and GST sentences out of the LS at 2 Hz or faster?
I agree with almost all of what you are saying Mark. The only exception I have is waiting for the first fix. For the LS the first fix is only a fraction of the process we've designed. Also the R10 doesn't use "fix" and "float" anymore.
It makes head to head tricky. I do agree that to demonstrate anything substantial there need to be 10s of alternating observations on a single point to begin to potentially see a more superior system.
For the LS in canopy, it needs to be a minimum 180 second observation, which may actually require more in order to acquire the requisite number of repeat fixes.
I understand that. Which is why I asked the question. Hiw will you run a rest that is mot undersampled and not constellation specific?
If you plan on looking at solutions, would you see how long the LS takes, then allow all alternate engines to wait the same time?
In my testing experience, if you allow recievers to cook for unlimited minutes it will take days to develop confidence in the test. Tests will always be undersampled.
Btw, does every shot take 3 minutes, or just the ones under canopy?
M
Just a thought. Do they allow hunting in the State Park?
Can you get NMEA GGA and GST sentences out of the LS at 2 Hz or faster?[/quote wrote:
Yes.
Never heard of Javad here in West-Europe. Is it a brand just coming up in the US or so? I have a Leica GS16 myself, quiet happy with it. But sometimes in heavy canopy areas it's still quiet frustrating. 🙂
I wish Evers, and Billings, and anybody who wants to come, would come.
There's alot to learn, no matter.
I have some ideas of how to test them.
I'm sure others do too.
I've had a tick illness relapse. Spent the day in bed.i thought I was gonna die earlier.
Feeling better now.
I expect to come, no matter.
And, i think it'll be fun.
Nate
I'd love to see Mark's equipment included in the test. Although, he obviously wouldn't be happy with the informal testing you have planned.
If equipment is very close performance wise, then you have to get real scientific, to test them.
If one is better, by a 20% margin, you don't need a stopwatch, that displays to the 10 thousandth of a second, to figure that out.
Real equipment, real woods. Real coffee.
Yup. I'm in!
rberry5886, post: 452803, member: 232 wrote: Mark, I think they are just looking for a "boys night out" type of thing...;)
Mark,
I'll bring my OPUS X90 for a real comparison.
DDSM
GeoMill, post: 452848, member: 13105 wrote: Never heard of Javad here in West-Europe. Is it a brand just coming up in the US or so?
Javad has been around since day 1 of commercial GPS. He built the first receiver as an employee of Trimble. He founded Ashtech, Javad Positioning Systems, and worked for Topcon and created the Hypers.He founded his current company Javad after leaving Topcon.
Very far from being a new player in the game.
