Recently the Public Surveyor here in the Virgin Islands who is responsible for recording surveys refused to record a survey of mine unless I change a property line.
The line in question is between the lot and the private road R.O.W, called the Estate Road here. When the road and the lot were first surveyed in 1985, the dirt road was already cut into a steep hillside (60%). The ROW was shown as an irregular meander line with no bearing or distance. There is a bend in the dirt road that is not shown on the 1985 survey. The difference is about 30 feet. 2 years later the lot was cut into 3 lots by the same surveyor and his new survey has bearings and distances but the lots (1/4 to 1/2 acre) don't close by about 10 feet. That's typical for this surveyor, one of the worst to cast his shadow in the VI.
When I resurveyed the lot, I concluded that the original intention was that the ROW would follow the existing dirt road wherever it went even though the surveyor didn't locate it correctly. I also considered the dirt road to be an original undisturbed monument to the location of the ROW and to take precedence over bearings or distances, particularly when the original survey is seriously flawed, as shown by the closure and the surveyor's reputation.
The Public Surveyor insists that I follow the bearings and distances on the later subdivision as well as I can and ignore the location of the dirt road putting it completely out of the ROW for a little ways.
I'm interested in opinions on where that ROW line should go and also, are there other places in the USA or elsewhere where the opinion of a RLS is overruled by a government employee, also a RLS ? It seems to me he is a de-facto judge making a ruling on a legitimate professional disagreement. Part of the defense of his position is that professional standards here are so low that it is necessary for him to check surveys to prevent fraud, negligence and incompetence since no one else does.
And THANK YOU WENDELL for getting my registration sorted out.
> are there other places in the USA or elsewhere where the opinion of a RLS is overruled by a government employee, also a RLS ?
Here in Oregon County Surveyors check surveys for compliance with statute prior to recording. They aren't supposed to be checking your resolution but it sometimes, and in some counties, amounts to the same.
As for whether the road is the right of way, or not, I'm not sure. I've made plenty of subdivision maps where the right of way was dedicated in places other than existing tracks or where no track at all existed. Certainly in your case there would be prescriptive rights. I'm not one who believes that a surveyor can adjudicate unwritten property rights by quasi-judicial fiat.
it would seem that recording should be allowed given the circumstances with possibly a "recorders note" of some type. Of course, I dont know Virgin Islands regs. good luck.
There's a mighty good attorney in St. Thomas. I worked on a forensic case with him about 8 years ago. Fellow has a Bachelor's in Civil Engineering from MIT and a Law Degree from Harvard. That's the sort of individual that would likely be able to set your public official in his place.
Contact me privately if you want me to look up his name for you.
On the other hand,
The Nature Conservancy is hiring a St. Thomas East End Reserves (STEER) coordinator. The “STEER Implementation Specialist” develops, manages and advances conservation programs for the STEER based on the Management Plan for the area. This is a term-limited (1.5 year) position with The Nature Conservancy, but ideally will become permanent position in the USVI. Requirements: Bachelor’s degree in natural resources management and 3 years related experience or equivalent.
You can view and apply for this job at:
> The Public Surveyor insists that I follow the bearings and distances on the later subdivision as well as I can and ignore the location of the dirt road putting it completely out of the ROW for a little ways.
>
It sounds as though the private road could possibly encroach onto private property one side or the other. I don't really know about VI rules a regs. but it could be the government employee is not too concerned since this is a private property issue rather than a local or state owned property issue.
Very interesting though.
Larry,
Here in Texas a legal doctrine known as "prescriptive rights" exists and has been applied many times to just this sort of problem. If a public entity is maintaining the road for "X" number of years, the public entity acquires prescriptive rights to said roadway. I know that the City of Houston uses this well-established doctrine all the time. That doesn't mean that the platted right-of-way is necessarily null and void, just that the public entity has acquired extra right-of-way outside of the platted easement. The statutory time period for acquisition in Texas usage for a minimum of 20 years.
An interesting sidebar is that although the public entity has acquired the useage of the land for whatever purpose, the entity must compensate the owner for his loss of property.
In other words, "It ain't free."
Jack Chiles
This is definately a private road ROW for the use of the property owners in the subdivision. No public maintenance involved. And it was originally created as 2 not very parallel wiggly lines on o subdivision plan in about but not exactly where an existing dirt road was. If a surveyor comes along later and puts bogus numbers alongside the ROW, that doesn't move the ROW. I'ts still where the dirt road is. And that's my professional opinion. I think I have the right to record a survey that shows my professional opinion.
Larry
I check surveys for a county in California. If something does not make sense on a survey I will question the surveyor. If I can't understand what he is doing, then will other surveyors looking at his map. If a surveyor explains why he did the survey a certain way I will record the map, even if I disagree. The main thing I look at is there enough information on the map to see how and why the surveyor did what he did.
ADC,
I have a note saying that the dirt road preceded any ROW plan and reference that first plan. I offered change the note or add any note he wanted. But, no I have to change the line.
Larry
> ADC,
> I have a note saying that the dirt road preceded any ROW plan and reference that first plan. I offered change the note or add any note he wanted. But, no I have to change the line.
>
> Larry
The first question is: Does his authority actually stretch that far to tell a registered surveyor to change his boundary analysis? I know the USVIslands are a territory and operate under Federal law and Territorial statutes. But no state that I am aware of would allow a recorder that authority, even if he is also a registered surveyor.
Show the exzisting dirt road and the described row and note the conflict.
DJJ
My opinion would be to show record right of way. I would also show the limit of the road as it extends out side of record (encroachment). I don't see where they can make you give up a right of way on a record of survey. If the road existed then the owners would have gained a right (depending on you state laws), but I would not think you could be asked to give up any additional rights without compensation. My $0.02.
If the ROW is deeded and described, you don't move it without some documentation from the owners. If that road is only an easement you don't change record ownership lines to fit the private road location, with the blessings of the owners you might be able to re-record the easement with a corrected description. Not sure what you are dealing with yet.
jud
If this guy is going to try to override your professional license, is he also going to take on some of the responsibility and liability? I know nothing about the V.I., but I'd guess he has more authority to tell you what line width you can use than authority to make your professional decisions for you.
The only description for the ROW would be "as shown on ..." this is the first survey.
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in this case it is the ESTATE ROAD between Parcels 26 and 27 and very roughly follows the existing dirt road.
A few years later 26 was subdivided and bearings & distances appear, but they do not close and do not follow the dirt road.
Doug Jacobson has the best solution..take it!
Show both..note the conflict. You're happy, the checker is happy.
Doug Jacobson has the best solution..take it!
No, Checker will not record the map with anything like my solution.
Doug Jacobson has the best solution..take it!
> No, Checker will not record the map with anything like my solution.
Then leave it on his desk and let him explain why he refuses to record a survey.
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It seems to me that whoever prevails on the issue of prior survey vs actual location, there needs to be a lot more dimensions, angles, and/or curve data than on this document. I don't see enough to lay out anybody's version on the ground. A survey that doesn't close should carry no more weight that the extent of its misclosure.