I'm working on a small, triangular lot of about an acre. It seems pretty logical that this will end up as some sort of commercial property in the future.
This is without a doubt the single most f-ed up thing I have seen in 30 years of surveying in my area.
1924 record plat has a 30' misclosure.
Adjoiner deeds reference different properties than they seem to have conveyed.
Plotted deed lines create 4-5 line possibilities with no monuments to back any one of them up.
Same deeds misclose wildly.
State took right of way so no front corners for the length of the road project.
Every time I think I'm on the right trail to sorting something I just end up uncovering another enigma.
Tomorrow I'm going to tell the client that for the first time, I am completely stumped. I think I'm ready to just let them know I'm done with this.
What are your experiences with walking away from something like this?
I've done it twice - once because of completely screwed-up deeds by the original owner of a 1/16 section and once because of improperly set street monuments in an older subdivision.
There are times when it's 4th and 40 and all you can do is punt.
Here is what you might do.
Survey the neighbors place... or occupation lines. And, MAKE a survey of occupation. Set corners. Call it a partial occupation line survey, combined with some of the neighbors deeds.
Some things are not doable.
So, get real pragmatic, and write a report, telling what you did.
Be short. Be blunt. Be practical. Be honest. Be done. Be paid.
🙂
N
What do the landowners say? What are they willing to do clear this up? Sometimes there is no "one correct answer". The land belongs to the landowners, have a meeting with all involved parties and explain the situation, and ask them how they want you to solve it.
At this point, don't just give up, it sounds like you are just starting the project. 😉
You are the expert. Don't walk away, propose solutions.
JB,
I agree with Nate mostly.
Sometimes your final because you're right and sometimes you're right because you're final. If you can't come up with the answer, then ask yourself, "who can?" Dig, measure, judge, communicate (McMillimeter). Charge them more and explain why. If they don't like it, no problem, good luck to them.
Stephen
Never, ever.....
Weekend Is Coming Up, Let's Get At It
To be fair to your client you have not given us an opportunity to clear it up or contribute to the morass.
Let us start with the 1924 deed and equally old adjoiners.
You state a highway taking, have you acquired the taking or design plan?
Paul in PA
At the very least you owe it to your client to try and get him & the adjoiners together, review everything with them by presenting the facts, and try to facilitate a mutually agreeable settlement. Better you than the judge.
I'm with Nate the Surveyor on this one. Do your due dilligence, which is sounds like you have done. Sleep on it and do the best you can....and set corners, mark them well and move on. I don't fret about surveys like this like I use to. Who is going to challenge you? In a situation like that I dare any other surveyor to do what you have done and come up with a different answer. He might....but if he is smart he will do the same thing you have already done, and submit to your corners. Unless, there is blatant evidence to the contrary.
.02'
> Better you than the judge.
:good: Yes, "Property Line By Agreement", based on your work of where YOU think it should be.
Great question.
I tend to support those who say go forth and develop your opinion of the best solution for the neighborhood, not necessarily for your client. File this for the whole world to find.
Sometimes we simply have to be braver than our personal sensitivities prefer.
Great Comment
>
> Sometimes we simply have to be braver than our personal sensitivities prefer.
Weekend Is Coming Up, Let's Get At It
:good:
I agree. The highway may or may not have an idea of the adjoining boundaries, but they might also have the property pins located prior to the takings. That's how it works in this State.
Great Comment
What is the BEST evidence? What's on the ground, including occupation? Where do the adjoiners and your client report that they believe the boundaries to be? When surveying the adjoiners, where does it place your boundary?
Been there. Sometimes it's the best option. However, I agree with Mr. Calder. Do your due diligence, make your best determination, any surveyor coming behind you won't be able to prove you wrong and will most likely be happy to find something of substance, provided you haven't left any stones unturned and you project a measure of professional gravitas. The uncertainty comes down to neighborhood reliance on your results. Will the client and adjoining property owners be willing to accept your results? Will they agree to a boundary line agreement? One disagreeable adjoiner can really screw the works up in this scenario.
> What are your experiences with walking away from something like this?
Never walk away. Sounds like you simply need to lay out all these things on the table and inform your client where your at and the additional cost required to move forward.
If they say no, then its your clients decision not yours.
Not every project is a lot and block peach and clients know this. When things are difficult you just have to open up your communication more so they are aware of the difficulties being faced. I'd prefer the crazy, hairy, confusing jobs.
Heck, post it all online for us so we can give you 3 or for more solutions.;-)
Have walked away from only one place
I've had several calls over the years concerning one subdivision. I will not touch it with a 50-foot pole. That is mainly because I spoke with the quasi-engineer who drew up the subdivision plan in about 1960. It is a full quarter section in size split into a few thousand tiny lots with curvilinear streets and cul-de-sacs. The quasi-engineer explained that there was no survey of any kind performed and that he simply drew on paper what the landowner thought might look nice to potential "suckers", er uh that is "buyers". There are only a few dimensions provided out of the thousands needed. The curvilinear streets have no information by which to establish them. The land is nothing but rocks, brush and weeds. Maybe 20 or so lots were sold nearly 50 years ago to remote buyers. Maybe two or three eventually sort of claimed something out in the middle of this mess and challenged anyone to dispute their claim. The county has never claimed ownership of the couple of little trails that wander out to the claimed lots. The very best any surveyor could do would be to locate one side of the quarter section, create a metes and bounds description relative to that and declare that description to be "the same as" Lot Number XXX of YYYYYY Subdivision as claimed by Such and Such Client. Based on the couple of old trailer houses and crude improvements I recall seeing there, the cost of the survey would exceed the appraised value of the property surveyed.
You know as soon as you give up, the next surveyor will probably complete it in a couple of hours by just throwing some things together.
To add what others have said, try to find agreement between landowners, so there is agreement on the lines. I would also have a separate page of text with your plat explaining what and why you did it, otherwise the next guy might not be able to make any sense out of it.
Have walked away from only one place
We have one of those here too! Every year a get a call to survey out there, and every time I take the 1/2 hr or so to explain everything, including options to fix the mess, to the potential client. Everyone of them has said the whole subdivision isn't worth as much $$$ as would it take to do what needs to be done.
