Came across a lot today that would have been a relatively easy survey but the corners were COVERED UP. Hard to judge from an aerial, but on the ground, what a mess. Large invasive species and a ditch between any traverse point and the corner. No ditch noted in the legal, in the plat, or an easement otherwise noted. One corner had a dilapidated fence corner at it, +/- 25' from the corner, and on a hunch figuring that there has to be some sort of something going on, fired up the schonstedt and sure enough a rod and cap rang out. I set our corner as pertained to the subjugated centerline. Next corner after that revealed two points, a rod and cap and a 4"x4" concrete monument with a mag and disk in the top, relatively interesting but of little significance. The most difficult corner, and the subject of this thread, required cutting only nearly 75' of line though dense brush and walking through the for mentioned ditch to the corner location.
The ditch isn't quite visible here, but in order to reach the range pole in the background, you had to go under the brush which had its' own obstacles. I am in no way complaining about the obstacles involved, in fact I find this type of stuff to to be a challenge and breaks up the monotony. However, if you bid a job not expecting to find such items and then come across this, how do you approach it? Is the surveyor contractually obligated to spend the time to cut through the mess to find or set an otherwise inaccessible corner? Does the type of survey dictate the thoroughness required? Seems that this type of situation is what hurts surveyors as a whole the most. Surveyors want the job, take it and lose money due to the requirements of the law. Or is that just the fact that surveyors as a whole do not charge enough for services and refuse to turn in less satisfactory surveyors to the board?
Brian McEachern, post: 386718, member: 9299 wrote: Came across a lot today that would have been a relatively easy survey but the corners were COVERED UP. Hard to judge from an aerial, but on the ground, what a mess. Large invasive species and a ditch between any traverse point and the corner. No ditch noted in the legal, in the plat, or an easement otherwise noted. One corner had a dilapidated fence corner at it, +/- 25' from the corner, and on a hunch figuring that there has to be some sort of something going on, fired up the schonstedt and sure enough a rod and cap rang out. I set our corner as pertained to the subjugated centerline. Next corner after that revealed two points, a rod and cap and a 4"x4" concrete monument with a mag and disk in the top, relatively interesting but of little significance. The most difficult corner, and the subject of this thread, required cutting only nearly 75' of line though dense brush and walking through the for mentioned ditch to the corner location.
The ditch isn't quite visible here, but in order to reach the range pole in the background, you had to go under the brush which had its' own obstacles. I am in no way complaining about the obstacles involved, in fact I find this type of stuff to to be a challenge and breaks up the monotony. However, if you bid a job not expecting to find such items and then come across this, how do you approach it? Is the surveyor contractually obligated to spend the time to cut through the mess to find or set an otherwise inaccessible corner? Does the type of survey dictate the thoroughness required? Seems that this type of situation is what hurts surveyors as a whole the most. Surveyors want the job, take it and lose money due to the requirements of the law. Or is that just the fact that surveyors as a whole do not charge enough for services and refuse to turn in less satisfactory surveyors to the board?
I generally visit the site prior to preparing an estimate so I don't have "surprises". Can't make money on surprises... If I do encounter something like this I sometimes call the client and explain the situation. Some are understanding and pay more, some don't. All get the same amount and quality of work.
I never give fixed fees for small boundaries. I give a qualified estimate. If the conditions change so does the price..
More time = more profit. No giveaways.
I got into one of those. I visited the site. It was FILLED with briars. Bottom land, by a creek. Hot. Muggy. I priced it at some 12-1500. He price shopped. Got another surveyor to do it.
That Surveyor lost his butt. He never finished it. I heard about it later. Too funny!
This other surveyor used a crew. I am sure that the crew went home, and said, ONE MORE DAY on this site, and the boss said no.
I am glad I did not do this one.
N
Some jobs are disasters. The sooner you realize this the better. Invite the client to do what is needed to reduce his final bill by $XXXXXX. If he doesn't want to do it, go home.
Brian McEachern, post: 386718, member: 9299 wrote: Came across a lot today that would have been a relatively easy survey but the corners were COVERED UP.
Just another day in the life of a Pacific Northwest Surveyor...
I run into this kind of thing all the time; I had one last month where a BIG fir tree fell over; it pulled up a massive root ball with it; 20' diameter 12'-15' up from the ground. Guess where the corner fell?
Laurel hedges are popular here; did you ever try to set a corner in a Laurel hedge?
I expect this kind of thing in 60% of the boundaries I do; I make sure the client know's that there will need to be some vegetation removal and price my work accordingly. Sometimes the client will offer to clear up some brush. Thick, overgrown blackberry patches are also popular here and so is having a client will to clean it out first...:grinning:
Brian McEachern, post: 386718, member: 9299 wrote: Is the surveyor contractually obligated to spend the time to cut through the mess to find or set an otherwise inaccessible corner
I'm hoping I am not taking this the way it reads. If you took the job, and plan to sign and seal the job when you turn in the job, you most certainly better be finding a way to find or set every corner. Yes, we underbid some jobs because of surprises like this. That's why we give estimates, and "call if exceeds". Unfortunately it is a fact, surveyors don't get to charge enough to cover this kind of thing because of the "guy down the road" who agrees to do the job for $500, and then doesn't really do the job, leaving the homeowner with a bad taste for surveyors if the homeowner ever finds out he got screwed.
Had a non-vegetation issue arise on a corner once. There was a stack of 8x8x16 concrete blocks in the corner of the client's back yard. Of course the corner was about 15 inches in both ways. We had a lot of fun moving then re-piling one heck of a lot of blocks. We were nice enough to leave the new monument in the clear. We thought about inviting the client to move them but we knew that would mean a return trip as he was busy managing his very busy Taco John's restaurant at the time.
Poster child for why I won't give an estimate over the phone to someone price shopping without first doing a site visit. Around here in the spring before leaf out I might able to see everything I need from a single set up or two. Come back in three months and the site has morphed into such an impenetrable jungle of cow parsnip, devil's club, willows and alders so thick I can't see past my nose.
I surveyed for 15 years in Nebraska; before moving out here and it was a real eye opener. People out here have special sheathes for their machetes; with a special pocket for a file.
And most crew members owned their own. A good sharp machete will be your friend in:
Williwaw, post: 386800, member: 7066 wrote: an impenetrable jungle of cow parsnip, devil's club, willows and alders so thick I can't see past my nose.
How do you guys have time to visit every site before giving an estimate? I would lose money going to every site to give an estimate, 1) for the time I am not working on a project, 2) for the gas 3) for the time i spend and didn't get the job. I do look on google earth before I give a price, sometimes you run into a corner like this.
Scott Ellis, post: 386813, member: 7154 wrote: How do you guys have time to visit every site before giving an estimate? I would lose money going to every site to give an estimate, 1) for the time I am not working on a project, 2) for the gas 3) for the time i spend and didn't get the job. I do look on google earth before I give a price, sometimes you run into a corner like this.
"How do you guys have time to visit every site before giving an estimate?"
Because I learned that I make far more profit when I know what I might be getting into.
Scott Ellis, post: 386813, member: 7154 wrote: How do you guys have time to visit every site before giving an estimate? I would lose money going to every site to give an estimate, 1) for the time I am not working on a project, 2) for the gas 3) for the time i spend and didn't get the job. I do look on google earth before I give a price, sometimes you run into a corner like this.
I give a range. But I always check Google Earth and turn "buildings" on. Most of my area is in 3d.
RADAR, post: 386805, member: 413 wrote: People out here have special sheathes for their machetes; with a special pocket for a file.
Don't ya just love hacking through 10' tall blackberries this time of year. Juice going everywhere an that sweet scent of rotting fruit;). Oh and how about tumbling down a hill with one of those in your hand or worse: hitting that bald face hornets nest with it (and than tumbling down the hill). Gad I love my job.
Daniel Ralph, post: 386855, member: 8817 wrote: Juice going everywhere an that sweet scent of rotting fruit
[SARCASM]I especially love cutting down devils club; it smells really good![/SARCASM]
Monte, post: 386795, member: 11913 wrote: I'm hoping I am not taking this the way it reads. If you took the job, and plan to sign and seal the job when you turn in the job, you most certainly better be finding a way to find or set every corner. Yes, we underbid some jobs because of surprises like this. That's why we give estimates, and "call if exceeds". Unfortunately it is a fact, surveyors don't get to charge enough to cover this kind of thing because of the "guy down the road" who agrees to do the job for $500, and then doesn't really do the job, leaving the homeowner with a bad taste for surveyors if the homeowner ever finds out he got screwed.
You are not taking it the wrong way. Recently I have been handed several surveys by others with many "Set IRC LB#xxxx" Only to arrive and find nothing, even though the survey is dated only a couple months ago. Most of the time that is on a lot where the corners are accessible. It is that type of work I was referring to as being contractually obligated. I have also seen on numerous occasions where the survey by others shows something to the extent of, "Corner in accessible" or "Corner falls in water" with no tie to a witness corner on the line or any type of offset. I agree with you that if a surveyor takes the job, then the corners must be found or installed.
