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Uncomfortable about getting involved in this project

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oldpacer
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@holy-cow?ÿ Good surveyors convince others how good they actually are by being the bad guy. I have had clients on the other side call me about their next job; AND good clients call me and tell me they are going to use someone else because the job is screwed up and want a Surveyor that won't find or show it, but will see me next time.?ÿ

In Surveying, sometimes bad is good.

PS, fixing pays more than showing.?ÿ


 
Posted : February 8, 2021 12:33 pm
oldpacer
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@jph @Norman Oklahoma?ÿ ?ÿYour control though their physical points, is not their control.?ÿ CONTROL is networked geo-math, NOT a nail and disk in the asphalt.

Adjusting each leg to fit a plan based bearing-distance, IS NOT control (even if it's only a hundredth of a foot).?ÿ


 
Posted : February 8, 2021 12:40 pm
Norman_Oklahoma
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@oldpacer

I think that we agree that we would make our own measurements and our own decisions about the coordinates we ultimately report.?ÿ?ÿ


 
Posted : February 8, 2021 12:44 pm
jph
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@oldpacer

It is their control.?ÿ I'm going to occupy and BS on their points, check into their other points, and locate the building/foundation, etc,?ÿ If everything jives, I'll use it.?ÿ Thanks for the semantics, though


 
Posted : February 8, 2021 12:57 pm
dmyhill
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I think that if your contract spells out that you are using their control, and spells out how, then it might be ok to do almost anything. People that are not licensed surveyors do construction all the time in all sorts of ways.?ÿ

The hard part comes when you are publishing asbuilts. Then you run into minimum standards that have nothing to do with him. Basically, as long as the standards are set by him (and that is ok), then the contract controls.

The primary question is: "Why is he hiring you?" Why not a union operating engineer that is used to running off stickers and targets and would only concerned with the square and plumb of the building?

Lastly, before saying, "Yes," I would try and do everyone a favor and review the specs. Get paid for it (if you can). Those specs are probably why he is looking to hire you.?ÿ

Regarding falling back to primary control, the issue I would address is that the existing start on the building may have been built with reliance on the targets. If they are off, any new staking needs to be in relationship to the existing building.

My druthers:

Recover primary control and locate all targets and also the building corners (and grid control if available). Balance and analyze.?ÿ

There may need to be essentially two datums (probably both horizontal and vertical):

One for the staking of the building...this would be on an assumed and local datum with obviously different coordinates from Datum #2. Datum 1 would hold the building, and all new (tight and checked) coordinates would be assigned to the targets.

Two, the datum established by the primary control, with coordinates published for grid and targets.


 
Posted : February 8, 2021 7:52 pm

dmyhill
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@fobos8

If it is dimension only, and structures relative to the building, then the building controls.

Likely, it is more than that. You probably have to certify that certain structures and items match the published grid to within XYZ.

Like I mention below. Tell him you will consult on it, get on the clock and review the specs and then tell him what he needs to do to be in compliance. If he already knew, he would have done it.


 
Posted : February 8, 2021 7:58 pm
dmyhill
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@eastkysurveyor

I should have just liked your statement!


 
Posted : February 8, 2021 8:00 pm
jph
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@dmyhill

Good points.?ÿ Within the site, as long as you're not encroaching on setbacks, it's not really surveying, but construction layout.?ÿ Depends on the jurisdiction probably, but my opinion is that it's not.

That said, a licensed guy could run amok of the rules if he plays it out like he's an unlicensed worker.?ÿ Sucks but there is a double standard at times.


 
Posted : February 9, 2021 7:29 am
fobos8
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Thanks again guys. It's the same as any construction job, check original control, review and proceed. Its a shame most of the original control has already been destroyed.


 
Posted : February 9, 2021 3:36 pm
Norman_Oklahoma
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Posted by: @fobos8

Its a shame most of the original control has already been destroyed.

I had a construction site. Before they set to demolishing the site I spent a day carefully setting control across the street. Lovely brass plugs all tied out 3 ways and adjusted. A few days later - before construction on my site kicked off - the site across the street was demolished taking my new control with it!

Thing is, in my travels I didn't come across anybody else's control.?ÿ I had control on 3 sides and only one side was lost. They were far more screwed than I was.?ÿ


 
Posted : February 9, 2021 6:22 pm

jph
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Posted by: @norman-oklahoma

Before they set to demolishing the site I spent a day carefully setting control across the street.

I learned that on my first construction layout project, set control points away from the site where you think none of the contractors will destroy it.?ÿ But they still seem to manage to wreck one or two somehow.?ÿ

Also, learned if it's an addition, don't worry about bringing elevations in from some benchmark.?ÿ The finish floor of where you're tying in is the BM


 
Posted : February 10, 2021 7:06 am
Norman_Oklahoma
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Posted by: @jph

Also, learned if it's an addition, don't worry about bringing elevations in from some benchmark.?ÿ The finish floor of where you're tying in is the BM

That is even true on new construction. The works are designed to match up to the sanitary sewer invert, to shed storm water, and to match up to adjacent grades, etc. If the pre-design topo surveyor bolloxed the benchmark tie in, the construction surveyor is going to have to live with it.


 
Posted : February 10, 2021 9:50 am
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