This does not apply to 5600 design. The newer models of the S3-S8 series however it does.
The tracking using active target is Defective. The light transmitted can hit a surface and will influence tracking.
It all depends in the reflective nature of the surface. A reflective sticker on my hard hat cost me four weeks work! The sticker was required to work on site so I was not there by choice.
To see for yourself cup your hand over the prism to block the instruments view. Then with the active prism place it near your body it will track you as you move and will show up as tracking target on data collector. It will move around and not track a specific point. But it is just being influence by the intensity of the light.
I found this during an as build with more then 10000 points caused approximately a 10% error of typically 2-3 inches. And due to distance from instrument the correct distance was recorded. Just not the correct angle.
Demonstrated to local rep a year ago still no reply or fix and they refutes to respond.
On top of the 10mm tracking accuracy. This is a nightmare to attempt anything critical in an accurate matter.
Turning prism helps. But I do have to worry about any of this with Leica.
Trimble robotics is a waste of money!
> This does not apply to 5600 design. The newer models of the S3-S8 series however ,t does.
> The tracking using active target is Defective. The light transmitted can hit a surface and will influence tracking.
> It all depends in the reflective nature of the surface. A reflective sticker on my hard hat cost me four weeks work! The sticker was required to work on site so I was not there by choice.
>
> To see for yourself cup your hand over the prism to block the instruments view. Then with the active prism place it near your body it will track you as you move and will show up as tracking target on data collector. It will move around and not track a specific point. But it is just being influence by the intensity of the light.
>
> I found this during an as build with more then 10000 points caused approximately a 10% error of typically 2-3 inches. And due to distance from instrument the correct distance was recorded. Just not the correct angle.
>
> Demonstrated to local rep a year ago still no reply or fix and they refutes to respond.
> On top of the 10mm tracking accuracy. This is a nightmare to attempt anything critical in an accurate matter.
> Turning prism helps. But I do have to worry about any of this with Leica.
>
> Trimble robotics is a waste of money!
[sarcasm]10,000 shots to figure out the robot didn't care for your Leica sales rep t-shirt.[/sarcasm]:-P
This is an interesting thread to follow. I bet no one from Trimble responds!
I have found that not only does the 360 fail to track horisontally, but there is also a 5-8mm vertical error unless you cover the top row of led lights on the housing.
I gave up on the 360 a year ago, the S6 and VX both track a mini prism quite accuratly so I will stick with that.
Do you have to keep the mini prism pointed at the gun as you walk around? I have a Geo600, and when the 360 stopped working on a job, I used the "brick" prism to finish the job, and I found it a difficult to walk and keep the prism pointed at the gun. If I paid big bucks for a new Trimble, I'd be P.O.ed about having to work around it's shortcomings.
:whistle: :good: :good: :good:
The only people I know who have trouble with a multi-track not tracking is if they don't go into the settings and set the tracking time to 3 seconds. Every time they come by with a complaint about it, I open up their settings and the track time was set to 0 sec.
I got NO problems with the S6 or the multi- track. It's just a tool- it's up to the operator to know what he's doing.
Never worked for Leica. Apparently you must work for trimble but I did state ho to test the issue. I also have emails to show that trimble has not responded to my support request from the local trimble sales company. So anymore sarcasm? or are you just to sold on the name! Test it it is true. White sheet states 10mm tracking accuracy in robotic mode. Worst in industry!
And I work alone and perform my own cad so I have to do field work then process. i did some randon checks of course. but the errors were small only inches so it took the final comparision to see the true answer.
And by the way assumptions are like butts, everyone has one they all stink!
Yes the trimble needs to track a prism constantly. The problem with standard glass is without the active target on a construction site the multiple reflective tapes and vest crossing the line of the gun will take the gun off the prism and chase these objects. The only real way to use a trimble robot accurately is to use in manual mode.
Of course this is not the purpose in purchasing a robot. I believe you can use the single prism targets still but I do not have that.
I find your reply interesting. I did meet with the local sales support team for trimble but they did not mention anything of this nature. I believe you may be speaking of the instrument updating the information in the data collector before storing the shot. These shots for the as builts used the average observations mode in the distance meter in a standard measure. I was not using track mode so I believe we are on the same page.
the rod was placed then fine leveled which allowed the instrument time to update. And I know it is difficult to understand what I am saying so hopefully the following helps.
The active prism has a central light source that illuminates the small diodes or track targets. If you go into a dark room and turn on the prism it will shine onto the surrounding walls. Any of these points could be tracked by the gun do to the intensity of the light. so if you are near an object with the prism and this light in daytime that you cannot see is cast onto something that the gun can see it will influence the tracking. I raised the prisms so that it was higher in the air to correct the problem. I do not prefer to have a 7 foot rod height for accurate work. Also since I was also working at a thermal solar plant the mirror panels presented a problem and the uncertain tracking lead to increase checking above the normal survey needs for as built points. I would survey all points then return along the route of the path I just took and double check shots before returning to the original backsight.
This just a share and I hope it helps. I also use Trimble GPS and I believe that to be the best I have used so you can understand my disappointment with this equipment.
And never give up your TGO the india software engineers for trimble are not your experienced professionals and are just filling the specifications of Trimbles orders.
Thats why it seems we are all Beta testers for there new softwares.
Sorry for such a long reply. I am a very detailed person and interested in improving the industry. More questions raised on the subject to trimble will help to get this resolved. I believe it is as simple as modifying the active target to be more similiar to the 5600 series which if you notice the diodes are not visible to the gun and cast upwards on to a surface not outward.
> I believe it is as simple as modifying the active target to be more similiar to the 5600 series which if you notice the diodes are not visible to the gun and cast upwards on to a surface not outward.
I had a problem once using a Geodimeter 640 (IR, not reflectorless) with an RMT606 (the standard Geodimeter/Trimble active 360°) in which the point I was checking into was about 20 feet from the gun and about a foot and a half in front of a window. I had the tracklight turned on, and the gun apparently got confused by the reflection of either the tracklight or the EDM (not sure which) such that the distance returned was almost 3 feet longer than the actual distance. Lesson learned: beware of reflective surfaces behind the prism, even when an active prism is being tracked.
Exactly right. We have been using it for 5 years and have never had a problem.
Just wondering, are you using the MT 1000? I have used trimble robotics for over a decade, they can be a little stubborn sometimes. My friends leica locked on to a tail light once and he didn't notice until he imported the data.... It's a robot, you gotta keep an eye on it.
> This does not apply to 5600 design. The newer models of the S3-S8 series however it does.
> The tracking using active target is Defective. The light transmitted can hit a surface and will influence tracking.
> It all depends in the reflective nature of the surface. A reflective sticker on my hard hat cost me four weeks work! The sticker was required to work on site so I was not there by choice.
>
> To see for yourself cup your hand over the prism to block the instruments view. Then with the active prism place it near your body it will track you as you move and will show up as tracking target on data collector. It will move around and not track a specific point. But it is just being influence by the intensity of the light.
>
> I found this during an as build with more then 10000 points caused approximately a 10% error of typically 2-3 inches. And due to distance from instrument the correct distance was recorded. Just not the correct angle.
>
> Demonstrated to local rep a year ago still no reply or fix and they refutes to respond.
> On top of the 10mm tracking accuracy. This is a nightmare to attempt anything critical in an accurate matter.
> Turning prism helps. But I do have to worry about any of this with Leica.
>
> Trimble robotics is a waste of money!
I hava a pristine 5603 if you want to negotiate a trade.
Also since I was also working at a thermal solar plant the mirror panels presented a problem
I know you exempted the older models, but any robot will be susceptible to errors if you are basically working around a mirror funhouse.
I've used 5600s and have a 650 Bergstrand that I use every day with a 360 prism. Are you saying they somehow degraded their own product capabilities with a newer model?? I find that hard to believe. But I've known and heard tons of stories of Topcon and Leica issues with "passive" tracking technology.
I wouldn't take that bet.
Okay, Are you certain you haven't had a problem. The errors vary by the degree of the reflectivity of the surface nearby. Something simple like the hard hat I mentioned. Maybe the errors you are getting are small a couple hundreds. I see this all the time even with aligning the prism. Not everywhere I had the issue had mirrors at the solar field obviously. It is my belief that the errors existing in almost every shot near an object. Set the active target on a prism and leave stationary. Then approach prism from an angle of 135d to the line formed with the gun with a reflective surface or a large piece of drywall at the level of the prism as you near the prism the angle will change.the effects will differ with range. I believe it is more effected at longer ranges.
try it do just deny a problem.
Sometimes this has happened to me also. the distance meter averages the distances of what it is seeing. So it could have been something additional inside the window or room. I tried using reflectorless to get a wall location inside a building thru glass and it ended up being in the middle of the room.
