> Let's not place the blame completely on the dealer. There's two problems, as a dealer that we come across...
>
> 1. The customer wants to nut the dealer. So, the dealer leaves out things that they may or may not need later to keep the price low enough to make the sale.
>
> 2. The dealer includes everything including , the kitchen sink and loses the bid,because,it's higher, even though incomparable to a lower priced item.
>
> I guess there is always,the bad dealer thrown,in there as well, normally they don't last very long though. Cant count the times though that I hear surveyors complain about bad dealers but,continue to support them. Absolutely ridicious!
Come on, man. The guy buys a robot, the dealer sells the robot, these 2 guys should be talking openly "how about some batteries to run the gun, do you have any?" The dealer has the knowledge, that person should be upfront even if it means not making the sale because of additional cost of compulsory accessories.
The thing that I do not like in #1 is as you mention, the dealer leaves out things. Is this a good way to do sales? Let the customer know and decide if items are needed or not.
As the comment about supporting bad dealers, the reason is simple. Some people prefer a certain brand and will put up with so-so support. They cannot get support from a different geographic region as this practice is frown upon by dealers and manufacturers alike.
The best way to get support from dealer is to give them money every so often. As my old boss used to say: "you have a problem? Throw money at it"
> The thing that I do not like in #1 is as you mention, the dealer leaves out things. Is this a good way to do sales? Let the customer know and decide if items are needed or not.
>
> As the comment about supporting bad dealers, the reason is simple. Some people prefer a certain brand and will put up with so-so support. They cannot get support from a different geographic region as this practice is frown upon by dealers and manufacturers alike.
>
> The best way to get support from dealer is to give them money every so often. As my old boss used to say: "you have a problem? Throw money at it"
I never said it was right and I certainly would never do it. As stated previously, Leica dealers normally include everything including the kitchen sink. That's one reason the brand has a stereotype for being the most expensive on the market. Clearly, it's not. I am only stating that these are two BIG problems that I see quite a bit as a dealer.
I will say though, I completely disagree with you and your old boss. "...you have a problem?, throw money at it" is not a solution. There is nothing positive about this. That's like paying your kids not to bully other kids in hopes that they'll stop for a little while and do what you want them to. In the end it's no real help to them and doesn't solve a thing.
My clients deserve good service and if they don't receive it they'd tell me in a second. And, if I don't make things right, they'll leave me no questions asked. You see, there is always another option. If they like Leica, there's 20 more other dealers out there that are happy to have the business.
As an active and un-biased contributor to this board, you bring a positive point of view, thank you.
My comment about "money throwing" was more meant in this way: It appears to me that periodically making fair size purchases yield better support than only making one major purchase every five years for example.
Support is so-so...purchase another asset...support is renewed. Jaded? Maybe.
>
> I will say though, I completely disagree with you and your old boss. "...you have a problem?, throw money at it" is not a solution. There is nothing positive about this. That's like paying your kids not to bully other kids in hopes that they'll stop for a little while and do what you want them to. In the end it's no real help to them and doesn't solve a thing.
>
I absolutely agree with this and find the original notion to be utterly preposterous.
> My clients deserve good service and if they don't receive it they'd tell me in a second. And, if I don't make things right, they'll leave me no questions asked. You see, there is always another option. If they like Leica, there's 20 more other dealers out there that are happy to have the business.
It seems that you and J Mark are the exception, not the rule. It's a problem that unfortunately is not being addressed and the options or alternatives are not available.
Ralph
>
> I guess there is always,the bad dealer thrown,in there as well, normally they don't last very long though. Cant count the times though that I hear surveyors complain about bad dealers but,continue to support them. Absolutely ridicious!
You make it sound as if some of us have a choice. Again Leica's model is bordering on collusion, whether you or anybody else wants to acknowledge it or not.
I know someone who had to go as far as the UK to purchase his 1201s.
Preposterous?
When my truck develops a problem, spending money usually solves the problem.
As for the choice of many dealers from a same brand, I do not think that Willie in Alaska has that many choices in his area.
> Preposterous?
>
> When my truck develops a problem, spending money usually solves the problem.
>
Spending money may solve a problem, continually throwing money at problems is rarely the answer, believe me. Enabling BS behavior is not within my M.O.
> I got to run one S6 for a time and it struck me that it didn't have a faceplate....
The Trimble 5603, which is mid '90s technology, being a rebranded Geodimeter, did not have a permanent faceplate. So not having one is not a new development.
"The Trimble 5603, which is mid '90s technology, being a rebranded Geodimeter, did not have a permanent faceplate. So not having one is not a new development."
Operating a Trimble is a new development..to me. I know nothing of a 5603, but have run the 140 & 600 series Geodimeters, which did include numbers and stuff.
Just remembering the number of things you could accomplish with a quick glance at a digital display.
>Enabling BS behavior is not within my M.O.
Me neither believe me. In fact if a preventive maintenance program is well-built and followed, it yields a very smooth M.O.
Maybe the term throwing is misleading. Spending could have been more appropriate.
Anyhow, thank you for using the word preposterous, always cracks me up as it reminds of the movie The Big Lebowsky, ...don't be preposterous Jeffrey...
I was on the dealer side of the fence for most of my career, and the last nine of them selling and supporting Trimble. Although I'm no longer on the dealer side, I still have some thoughts on this issue.
1) Your dealer screwed up big time. The S6 came out in 2005; they should have quoted enough of them by now to know what needs to be included. While it IS valid that an existing S6 user may not want another complete power kit, it is incumbent upon the dealer rep to a) know that; and b) ask the appropriate questions prior to developing and delivering a quote.
2) Having said that, I have been in the uncomfortable position of having left things off of a quote that needed to be on there. Believe me, as a dealer rep, there is NOTHING harder than having to go back to a customer and tell them they need to buy additional parts to make whatever high - dollar item they just ordered work. The instance that really stands out in my mind was my first time quoting a new product and Trimble not making it clear what all came with it. I wrote a couple of scathing e-mails to some folks at Trimble and in the end Trimble, the dealer, and the customer all compromised to resolve the problem.
3) Trimble and Leica both have exclusive territories and protected dealers, so unless your company has a physical presence in more than one dealer territory you really don't have any options if you want one of those brands (Texas being the exception). If a dealer from another state offers to sell you equipment they are unethical and are in direct violation of their dealer agreement. The main reason for this is to enable dealers to be able to provide the type of sales and support structure that these manufacturers require without having to worry about throat cutting price wars. Neither the customer nor the dealer wins when price is the primary consideration on a major purchase.
thats too bad. I've gotten two quotes on S6's lately and they both asked details about what I currently used and listed anything I might need as a line-item .
re the faceplate, I have a geodimeter Bergstrand edition, and use the original CU and software. It was never meant to remain on the instrument for robotic work, but you can attach it if you need to. This is NOT NEWS. it's the way it's been designed and used since at least the mid-90's .
My dealer (won't mention name) also tried to pull the same trick with me. Oh you want batteries, cables, and a charger...that will be extra! No afraid not. Either supply the rest of the package or take the gun back.
They ended up making it right, but not without a lot of pressure from our end.
In their defence, it was the first Trimble total station they sold. On the other hand they later gave us their used rental robotic rod bracket when we upgraded to fully robotic. $6000 and they give us their used hardware, so they can upgrade their rental gear!!! Lets just say that all the customers in the store overheard the conversation. Never went back to that outfit again. They did't seem to see a problem with what they did.
EXCLUSIVE TERRITORIES aren't what you think...
I have read a number of threads no talking about exclusive territories, especially when in comes to Trimble and Leica. I am not expert when it comes to Trimble but yes, they seem to be very territory-driven no matter the product line you are interested in (S3, S6, R8, R10 and so on.)
Leica used to be like this as well. This is no longer the case. Leica dealers are only protected on the higher-end items, such as the TS15, GS15 and MS50's. Other products like the TS12, GS15, CS15, Software, NetRovers, Conventional Total Stations, etc can be sold anywhere.
Keep in mind that the higher end items are protected due to the amount of support they require. We are talking about Scanning Robots, Imaging Total Stations, etc. It is a huge investment for the dealer both monetary and time-wise to get to the point they need to be to support the customer.
I am not saying that anyone should go out and price shop every dealer across the country. To me, service and support is by far the most important aspect in buying Surveying Equipment. It's worth something!
I'm amazed when I hear stories like that. I can understand someone having trouble navigating the Trimble maze their first time through it, but passing off used gear as new is totally inexcusable.
EXCLUSIVE TERRITORIES aren't what you think...
My time with Leica was mainly in the '90s and before they went public; apparently a lot has changed since then. Trimble is exclusive on all Survey products; not so much on Mapping.
Ya, it had orange spray paint on it, the rubber connection covers were missing, the pads where the bracket clamps to the rod were jacked up.
That was the last straw for me. I was so frustrated with dealing with their antics that after letting them know how I felt, I took the used bracket and left.
I don't know how you could stay in business treating customers like that.
I now use a dealer that is hundreds of miles away and get 200% better service.
OK Willi
Let us know how it is going.
N
OK Willi
> Let us know how it is going.
>
> N
Must say its been nice being far away from computers and the internet for a few days. The Trimble rep responsible for this cluster flub drove out for a visit yesterday. They dropped the ball big time. In this reps defense, he inherited this order and is new to the survey equipment and really doesn't know his a$$ from his elbow when it comes to surveying equipment and software. The original rep that put the quote together for us last year has since moved on to greener pastures and the fellow I'm dealing with now is doing his best to cope, but on a steep learning curve. I told him that part of what we are paying for here is their expertise and knowledge of their products, which he had to admit, was next to non existent. We discussed a few additional snags that have come to light, such as the fact that Spectra Precision Survey Pro will not work with Trimble Vision even though they like to advertise that their product will work with ALL Trimble products. He's offered to do something on the shipping costs for the battery and power pack but in either case it's going to cost us additional moneys to get up and running. So in short, yea, throwing money at it is part of the solution. The bottom line is that this particular dealer's business model does not involve keeping good knowledgeable people around. I've seen through the years a very high turn over rate there. The saving grace is that I'm willing to put up with this BS because I like Trimble products, but the dealer and support blows. This probably isn't the forum for me to place the blame for that. To me, reputation is everything and that is where I think their business will suffer in the long run.
I'll get it all straightened out but it's a bunch of aggravation that I just didn't need. I've got a heaping plate of that just taking care of my day to day duties around here. But, it is, what it is and I just have to deal with it best I can. B-)
OK Willi
While using a Trimble robot in Alaska, I found the support from Martin Instrument in Texas to be absolutely phenomenal. Repairs, rentals, picking up the phone--in all ways the consummate professionals. Where I worked at the time, we had 3 Trimble robots and honestly never considered the Anchorage outfit for sales, service, or rentals.
At my current firm we have all Leica gear, and I think the Anchorage Leica dealer is great.
