Trimble LEAP

> Has anyone had the chance to demo one of these?
>
>> https://www.terrainnavigator.com/Product/Leapbr >
That looks like a cool and useful product for rural surveying. The fact that you need cellphone coverage is the killer for me since most of the tracts where I'd want to use it are in West Texas outside coverage. Love the subscription price.

Depending upon whether the smartphone app has the ordinary navigation routines or not, that may also be a weak link.

> Depending upon whether the smartphone app has the ordinary navigation routines or not, that may also be a weak link.

I think it's also a safe bet that Trimble would hobble the smartphone app so that the system doesn't compete with any of their other products. For example, it looks as if the app doesn't output NAD83 positions and the specs are very coy about what "full accuracy" can be acheived from 5 minutes of data.

I noticed this post and thought I'd chime in. Good questions. I work with the team that developed the Trimble Leap and its corresponding mobile apps.

"The fact that you need cellphone coverage is the killer for me since most of the tracts where I'd want to use it are in West Texas outside coverage. Love the subscription price."

Answer: Just to clarify, you need a data connection for Trimble RTX correction service, which provides real-time sub-meter accuracy 95% of the time. The Trimble Leap will work without a data connection but it drops into DGPS or Stand Alone modes. We've seen some DGPS outputs around the one-meter mark but we can't promise that accuracy at this time. Alternative: The new Trimble R1 provides Trimble RTX over a satellite L-band. But the base unit and RTX service is more expensive.

"Depending upon whether the smartphone app has the ordinary navigation routines or not, that may also be a weak link."

Answer: What kind of navigation routines do you need, Kent? The Leap-supported TNP Mobile app does point to point navigation. So you can mark a point (with sub-meter accuracy) and go back to that point using a bearing. Or, you can use the app's map screen to see the location of that point on a topo, street, or aerial map. Those maps can be stored on the phone for viewing in rural areas without data connections too.

"I think it's also a safe bet that Trimble would hobble the smartphone app so that the system doesn't compete with any of their other products. For example, it looks as if the app doesn't output NAD83 positions and the specs are very coy about what "full accuracy" can be acheived from 5 minutes of data."

Answer: The Trimble Leap uses two apps. The Trimble Leap app communicates and manages the high-accuracy positioning services with the receiver. The TNP Mobile app taps into the high-accuracy outputs and lets professionals collect data in the field. As far as "hobbled" features.

Re: NAD83. According to our product manager, we only output high-accuracy data in WGS84 to avoid errors that happen in coordinate conversions.

Re: Full accuracy. Convergence times can vary but we are reporting sub-meter accuracy with Trimble RTX at a 95% rate. The Trimble Leap is much faster at convergence than older high-accuracy receivers which could take 20 minutes or more. Based on our tests, 5 minutes is very real.

I hope this answers your questions. Feel free to ask more or if you want to demo a unit I can reach out to our sales folks to see what stores in your area are carrying the product.

Have a good weekend. Thanks. -kris

> "The fact that you need cellphone coverage is the killer for me since most of the tracts where I'd want to use it are in West Texas outside coverage. Love the subscription price."
>
> Answer: Just to clarify, you need a data connection for Trimble RTX correction service, which provides real-time sub-meter accuracy 95% of the time. The Trimble Leap will work without a data connection but it drops into DGPS or Stand Alone modes. We've seen some DGPS outputs around the one-meter mark but we can't promise that accuracy at this time. Alternative: The new Trimble R1 provides Trimble RTX over a satellite L-band. But the base unit and RTX service is more expensive.

I'm approaching the value of the LEAP to me as being something that I would use in the same way that I used a ProXRS with real-time corrections from OmniStar. Out in the hinterlands, the latter fairly consistently delivered sub-foot accuracy, which made it very useful for both reconnaissance work and other tasks that didn't need better accuracy than that.

> "Depending upon whether the smartphone app has the ordinary navigation routines or not, that may also be a weak link."
>
> Answer: What kind of navigation routines do you need, Kent? The Leap-supported TNP Mobile app does point to point navigation. So you can mark a point (with sub-meter accuracy) and go back to that point using a bearing. Or, you can use the app's map screen to see the location of that point on a topo, street, or aerial map. Those maps can be stored on the phone for viewing in rural areas without data connections too.

The navigation functions I used most were really two-fold. One was navigation to position, displaying bearing and distance (in specified units) in specified projection of NAD83. The other was navigation along a line or track, displaying distance from given endpoint and offset from line (cross-track error) in specified units.

> "I think it's also a safe bet that Trimble would hobble the smartphone app so that the system doesn't compete with any of their other products. For example, it looks as if the app doesn't output NAD83 positions and the specs are very coy about what "full accuracy" can be acheived from 5 minutes of data."
>
> Answer: The Trimble Leap uses two apps. The Trimble Leap app communicates and manages the high-accuracy positioning services with the receiver. The TNP Mobile app taps into the high-accuracy outputs and lets professionals collect data in the field. As far as "hobbled" features. Not sure what features you want but you can see full app description at: https://www.terrainnavigator.com/Product/MobileApp.
>
> Re: NAD83. According to our product manager, we only output high-accuracy data in WGS84 to avoid errors that happen in coordinate conversions.

Well, the transformation between what I assume are really ITRF2008 positions (labeled as "WGS84" positions in the specs) and NAD83 should not be a challenge considering that the transformation parameters are well known. If one wants to sell these devices in the US market, I'd think that offering an output in NAD83 at standard epochs is pretty much a requirement.

> Re: Full accuracy. Convergence times can vary but we are reporting sub-meter accuracy with Trimble RTX at a 95% rate. The Trimble Leap is much faster at convergence than older high-accuracy receivers which could take 20 minutes or more. Based on our tests, 5 minutes is very real.

If I'm understanding you, it takes 5 minutes of data to obtain only submeter accuracy? If that's the case, I wrongly assumed that it was functioning at a level equivalent to the old ProXRS with realtime corrections.

The R1 is awesome! I have tested it with my I-Phone 5 and Terraflex (a Trimble app)
Trimble will actually surprise a lot of you, they have coined a term BYOD which stands for
Bring Your Own Device!
The R1 will connect to your device via bluetooth and use it's dual constallation antenna to take over your devices internal GPS. When using RTX subscription service or a local RTN you can expect to get sub meter to 1' repeatable results. The price tag is 2,395.00
without the services it will use WASS and still come in around 1M or better.

JSW