I have never used Topcon Robotics and I was wondering if someone that has used Topcon Robots as well as Trimble or Leica would care to offer a quick comparison?
At first blush I am not fond of the signaling device that sits atop the prism, but if it works well I guess its an adequate trade-off.
Do they seem to point accurately/turn in good traverse?
How well do they maintain lock?
thanks
the last one I tested (the IS) was extremely fast. precision was good. The box on top is great, depending on which it is. I'm not crazy about the big Bluetooth box that Sokkia brought to Topcon, what is now being badged as the RC-5, mostly just due to the bulk. It works fine, just not as inspired by the build quality. However, the RC-4/WT-100 are well built and compact. They will whistle up the robot quickly, and provide the radio as well.
I see less and less difference between robots now. Regardless of brand, I have not been able to trick any of them into tracking anything but a prism in a long time. Most of the difference is in build quality and integration with accessories. The higher end Topcon's are very good. I have no experience with their newer lower tier robots. It appears that Topcon has removed themselves from the mid to upper tier conventional total stations meaning that you can either buy a low-end Topcon conventional or a robot if you want Topcon.
I appreciate the input.
I haven't tried the IS yet, not that I really want to though. I use a GPT-9000A right now and I think the Trimble's and Leica's are certainly better trackers for sure. At least that's my experience. I think there's a reason for the RC-4 unit on top of the prism assembly. It's because once it's lost you, which is often, it'll never find you again without it... Sort of like it was stuck up there as an after thought. It turns good angles and I can easily get over 1,000 feet with it. I have generally given up on it as far as tracking me for very long distances (over 100' or so) between shots that I just go to my next shot and have it do a painfully long search for me. Point the RC-4 unit at it and it sometimes still has a hard time finding you. Other times, it find you fairly quick. + we've had problems with it falling off from the top of the prism and eventually breaking. It's cheap Topcon plastic.
Now about the software and dc... The dc that I use is the FC-2500. It seems to be well built and has held up pretty good. I like it. But the software....blows... It has too many glitches. It takes too long to store a point when in road topo mode. I think it's refreshing and drawing every single point on the screen after every shot. Well, after a couple of thousand points in a job file, it really s l o w s down. I have found that changing the view mode to X-section or what ever they call it helps speed it up, but nothing to write home about.
And the fun little glitch to where when you change the rod height, it will calc out the elev. using the old rod height for the next shot. After that, it calcs correctly, until you change the rod ht again. You can view the raw data and see that the rod ht has been change, but it still calcs it out wrong. If you select to recompute the raw data, it fixes it. hmmm.... I have found that if I change my rod height, click into another field and then take the shot, everything comes out hunky dory.
It has other glitches. More than you would expect. For instance, watch your resection solutions...
It's lacking in the COGO department. My 1990's technology HP 48 with TDS is better.
When building a road with it, it does that OK except for there's no way of checking it unless physically taking a shot in the field and seeing if it's working right. In TDS and Carlson, I believe you can type in a random station and o/s and it will show you the design grade which you can check against the plans, or however you like to check it. If I have a road that has 30 templates, I like to be able to check it somehow to make sure everything was imputed correctly.
And it crashes too frequently for me. And I mean to where you can't get back into that job and have to use the back up file. My 1990's technology HP 48 with TDS never crashes.
OK, OK. I know you were just talking about robots and I just kind of went off there a little bit...
My opinion as far as software goes, the other Yellow(s) and Carlson do it better.
I used an 8000 series Topcon Robot, and I agree with everything you said. It seems like Topcon was way behind the others in robotics, as far as tracking and reacquisition of the prism goes. The thing on top of the prism worked about 50% of the time. The gave you enough batteries to last about 4 hours and one charger, so you needed to haul around an external battery. And the rod with that stuff attached to it was a lot heavier than even the older robotics, plus extra cables. I would not buy another Topcon Robot.
We use an 8200. It's 7 years old and was already being replaced by the 9000 then. I would not base an opinion of Topcon's robots today on experience with an 8000. It would be like basing your opinion on a Samsung S5 smartphone on how your Samsung flip phone worked in '05.
I agree with Beerleg regarding software.
I know Topcon may have gotten better, but the fact is matter is that it felt like Topcon was 10 years behind my 5 year old Geodimeter when my old boss bought the 8000 Topcon. I see they are still putting the stupid thing on top of the prism, which IMO just adds more weight to the pole, makes it harder to get shots in tight places, and doesn't work well ... the better robots don't need that. I didn't even mention that the reflectorless sucked and in robotic mode it perferred to look at any shiny object over the prism. And it didn't matter how slow or carefully you walked from point to point, there was at least 50% chance it would not be looking in your direction when you got there. We literally had to put a guy behind the guy to roughly point the gun in the right direction, but it was constantly losing us and difficult to get "re-locked".
Topcons might be great now, but my experience was so bad with them that I'm not going to get burned twice. IMO, there are better Robots out there for the same price.
The APL-1A was a total station manufatured by Topcon with an excellent tracking record, I remember that much. Maybe there are tricks to maximize performance of 800, 8000 and 9000 series?
Anyway, I always enjoyed Topcon non-robotic (I haven't used their robots) total stations. Awesome tribrachs too. I'd like to see that new auto leveling robot in action.
Thanks, will be using Carlson with it. My brief experience with a FC2500 resulted in the only time I have ever lost my temper because of an electronic device. The Bluetooth was glitchy, the interface made no sense, etc.
It was like the MicroStation of data collection. Sorry, couldn't resist. I know someone will have something to say about that. 😛
My first robot was a Topcon 9000 w/ FC-200 running an early version of Topsurv. I bought the system at the end of 2006 right after it came out. The tracking wasn't great but it was functional. It would loose lock, especially at close range, but I dealt with it. I learned the software quickly as it is fairly intuitive. I upgraded to Topsurv 7 when it became available. I didn't have glitch or stability issues with 7. I did have issues when I upgraded to Topsurv 8 so I quickly went back to 7 and never gave 8 another try.
Last month, I bought a Topcon PS with a Tesla controller running Topcon Magnet. The RC-5 is bulkier than the RC-3/4 but it works great. It's pretty hard to loose lock and when you do, it calls it back very quickly. I would say it's a vast improvement over the 9000 system. I really like the Tesla controller for it's screen size and outdoor readability, although it is a bit heavy. Since I had been running Topsurv, the learning curve for Magnet was pretty flat.
In short, I don't have much experience with other brands, but going from the Topcon 9000 to the Topcon PS has been a very positive experience.
> I have never used Topcon Robotics and I was wondering if someone that has used Topcon Robots as well as Trimble or Leica would care to offer a quick comparison?
>
> At first blush I am not fond of the signaling device that sits atop the prism, but if it works well I guess its an adequate trade-off.
>
> Do they seem to point accurately/turn in good traverse?
>
> How well do they maintain lock?
>
> thanks
I've never been a fan of Topcon/Sokkia robots. They are basically the same. The signalling device on top of the prism is a PAIN in the ass. There were many times where the total station would lock on to a passing car or even my parked truck. Either the brake light lens or side mirror. I would get strange results when I set up where my work area would be in the direction of a martial arts studio with mirrors. I took many calls to Sokkia, Carlson and my rep for me to figure out the problem. The one good thing compared to Trimble is that a flashing beacon would not totally throw the machine into a never ending whirlwind. All in all, knowing the information I had to come by the hard way, if pushed to purchase something other that Trimble, Sokkia/Topcon would suffice. Keeping lock depends on obstacles in it's way. If nothing major crossed it's line of sight, it would keep lock. The rod was top heavy due to the receiver. I could go on, but I'll stop.
My experience with Leica Robots are negative as well. I never got it out of the office to start collecting. To make Leica robot work with 3rd party data collectors is also a pain.
I like Trimble, but don't have the budget for it.
The biggest thing about robotic total station technology is hands on experience.
The color does not matter, the steady hours do.
I feel that there is really only two Robots really out there. Trimble and Leica. Two different mentalities, both probably right, but both different.
Trimble - "Be fast, never lose me." That's why it is such a great construction stakeout instrument. It won't lose you. Say goodbye to Carlson though.
Leica - "Fastest to the first point". Best Search function on the market. If it loses you you press a button. Within five seconds it is back on you.
As for Topcon...ugh.
What are your thoughts on the Trimble sub brand SP Focus 30?
I just tried the IS and the RC-4 and it tracks waaaay better than the GPT 9000A-RC-3 combo. It seemed to track like a robot should. I went behind several trees and it locked back on to the prism pretty fast without having to do a search. I also went into some thick brush to locate about 6 IP monuments. 5 out of 6 times, it found the prism fairly quick. The other time I had to have it search for the prism. I only used it for a day and it seemed like it's tracking ability was satisfactory. I had it set up on a grass median and I was walking on the sidewalk. As cars went by, it was able to locate the prism once again fairly quickly. The GPT 9000A-RC-3 combo would no doubt of lost me in all of those scenarios.
Newer Trimble controllers have internal GPS and in Access will do a GPS search for the prism if you lose it Pretty much eliminates the searching time, it just turns to you.
Yeah, I just got a Ranger 3L with Survey Pro, and even though I'm using an ancient Geodimeter 600, the "GeoLock" works near flawlessly. It's so simple and requires no input from the user, after about 2 or 3 sideshots it just figures out the GPS coordinates, and turns to you when you need it. I've even tried to trip it up working on an assumed coordinate system rotated 90 degrees from north, and it worked without a hitch. It's a game changer, and their is room for improvement.
