I am trying to decide between a robotic Topcon PS and Trimble S3. I have never used a robot and have concerns about tracking on heavy traffic construction sites. Any advice would be appreciated.
Both are great. I'd go with the dealer that will give you the best customer service and troubleshooting support.
> I am trying to decide between a robotic Topcon PS and Trimble S3. I have never used a robot and have concerns about tracking on heavy traffic construction sites. Any advice would be appreciated.
I haven't used the Topcon PS so I can't speak to that. If you go with the Trimble, spend the extra $$ and get it with the multi-track feature. I have an S6 with multi-track and wouldn't buy another robot without it. Since you're in NC you're probably buying from Duncan Parnell if you go the Trimble route. They've been great for support for me with both my robot and GPS so you can't go wrong there. Also, the last I checked, Carlson does not have the drivers to run the S3 or S6 so if you're a Carlson field-software user you'll have to switch to Survey Pro or Trimble Access with the S3.
Me personally, I'd demo them both, then make a decision based on 1) support 2) software and 3) which robot you like better.
Happy shopping.
Wes
> I am trying to decide between a robotic Topcon PS and Trimble S3. I have never used a robot and have concerns about tracking on heavy traffic construction sites. Any advice would be appreciated.
I used an S6 this past year, without utilizing an active prism, and had the instrument chase vests and lock onto reflective signs and vehicles countless times.
It was maddening when I was trying to stake and grade, and every time the bulldozer pushed a lift past the line of sight, the instrument would lock onto it.
The MultiTrack prism (active) uses an LED array which has a 1-6 channel signal. The instrument actually tracks the LED and not the EDM reflection.
I don't believe the S3 has the function or hardware to track the active MultiTrack.
The MultiTrack makes a huge difference, in the environment you are looking to work.
Does the TopCon have a similar active prism system?
>
> I don't believe the S3 has the function or hardware to track the active MultiTrack.
>
> The MultiTrack makes a huge difference, in the environment you are looking to work.
>
The new S3s do.
Ralph
I've done reviews of the new Topcon Image station and the Sokkia SRX robot over the last couple of years. I intentionally tried to get them to get tripped up tracking false targets and they wouldn't (tail lights, traffic cones with reflective tape, etc.)
I've never had the opportunity to work with Trimble robots before, so I can't offer anything there. I'm surprised they track vests and other reflective objects as Leica had that whipped when they brought out the 1200, and Topcon and Sokkia apparently have too.
My old Topcon (8203) will at times track shiny objects, but not often. I tend to make my setups look in a perspective that doesn't offer as much distraction when possible.
> > I am trying to decide between a robotic Topcon PS and Trimble S3. I have never used a robot and have concerns about tracking on heavy traffic construction sites. Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> I haven't used the Topcon PS so I can't speak to that. If you go with the Trimble, spend the extra $$ and get it with the multi-track feature. I have an S6 with multi-track and wouldn't buy another robot without it. Since you're in NC you're probably buying from Duncan Parnell if you go the Trimble route. They've been great for support for me with both my robot and GPS so you can't go wrong there. Also, the last I checked, Carlson does not have the drivers to run the S3 or S6 so if you're a Carlson field-software user you'll have to switch to Survey Pro or Trimble Access with the S3.
>
> Me personally, I'd demo them both, then make a decision based on 1) support 2) software and 3) which robot you like better.
>
> Happy shopping.
>
> Wes
Thanks for the reply. The PS has multi-track with an active prism. It costs about the same as the S3 with the S6 being about 10K more. You're right about the Carlson. It is no longer supported by Trimble.
> > I am trying to decide between a robotic Topcon PS and Trimble S3. I have never used a robot and have concerns about tracking on heavy traffic construction sites. Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> I used an S6 this past year, without utilizing an active prism, and had the instrument chase vests and lock onto reflective signs and vehicles countless times.
>
> It was maddening when I was trying to stake and grade, and every time the bulldozer pushed a lift past the line of sight, the instrument would lock onto it.
>
> The MultiTrack prism (active) uses an LED array which has a 1-6 channel signal. The instrument actually tracks the LED and not the EDM reflection.
>
> I don't believe the S3 has the function or hardware to track the active MultiTrack.
>
> The MultiTrack makes a huge difference, in the environment you are looking to work.
>
> Does the TopCon have a similar active prism system?
Yes, but I have not seen a demo yet or spoken to anyone who has used one. I have seen a S3 demo and you are correct, it does not have multi tracking. Thanks for the help.
> I am trying to decide between a robotic Topcon PS and Trimble S3.
So why have you eliminated the Lieca?
Let me start by saying I agree with the gentleman above. Whomever has the best service and support in your area is who should go with. This is the most important aspect of buying a robot. They're all going to mess up or need calibrating at some point. If you can't get that done, right and in a timely manner you might as well pull a chain and turn manual angles with an old transit.
That being said, you should really look into the Leica TS12 series. This instrument works with Carlson SuveCE, MicroSurvey or Leica Viva. The Powersearch option is hand's down the best "search function" on any Robot out there. It works right out of the box, no settings need to be changed, not big remotes have to be carried around on the prism, no $1500.00 multitrack prisms have to be purchased. It is a solid gun that's been around for years. The kinks are worked out so there's no guessing...is this going to be a good gun, or isn't it.
I used to not be a Leica fan. It was expensive, the software was cumbersome. It was the elite equipment in a "midrange" world. However, Leica has changed that. They are in line with everything else on price and it is one of the few instruments that can use third party software. Furthermore, Leica's Service centers are audited and must be compliant with strict tooling and static regulations. It's no easy task! What you get though is service that you can count on through testing protocols twice as rigorous as anyone else out there.
I tell the guys that call me for instruments to come in and let me show them the difference in a Leica Robot adjustment compared to some of the others. You should do the same.
I have used Leica 1200 and Trimble S6 extensively. The S6 is a lot better, in my opinion. I have not used a Leica 1200 in a few years, and maybe they have improved.
Based upon my use, I found the S6 much faster, slick, and quiet.
I use a the standard prism that comes with it, and although the unit will sometimes lock onto other objects, it is not excessive. You can tilt the rod a little if you are not sure it is locked on you, and it will show a distance change or an angle change if you move it sideways.
The S6 is extremely accurate.
The S6 is a fine gun, but there are three things I do not like about it:
1. The annual maintenance coverage is over $110 per month, not counting the maintenance contract for the TDS firmware updates, which I think is close to $40 or 50 per month.
2. S6 won't work with Carlson. You are stuck with Trimble stuff. My experience with TDS is that they don't seem to innovate their firmware much. For example, I have suggested several things that I know would improve use of the S6, such as being able to window an irregular polygon and then scan it. Right now it has to be a rectangular thing or between two angles, which causes a jillion more shots to be taken to scan a surface that is not almost exactly rectangular. Carlson will dive on that kind of stuff in a heartbeat, and Carlson will drive a Topcon.
3. My Trimble TSC2 data collector broke, so I decided to get a new Trimble TSC3 data collector. Trimble would not let me transfer the TDS software to a new TSC3 data collector model, and would not let me transfer it to another TSC2 data collector exactly the same model of the one that broke. They said the TDS software is part of the hardware.
Primarily because of Item No. 3, I don't think I will ever buy another Trimble anything. Looking at Topcon right now for our next robot.
Take them both out and kick the tires. The instrument and price are not the only things to consider. I've been a Trimble user for 15 years. I love it but it does have its downfalls. I'm at a place that uses Leica as well.
My opinion shouldn't influence yours so here are things to consider:
-Will you have to learn new data collector software?
-Will it be a completely different collector that your GPS unit (assuming you have one)
-Run it for a day doing a big topo on an actual job, not a 4 shot square demo topo at the dealer. You need to be doing everything you normally do and carrying everything you normally would. Doing this, think about the placement of the keys, pressure required to press a key (think 20° and wearing gloves), how many menus do you need to go in and out of to take an offset shot, etc. For these reasons I HATE the Leica CS 15 collector.
-Will the data collector allow you to collect data the way YOU want to? ie, if you use line codes, are the designators readily available to enter or do you have to have to hit function keys or tap the screen a few times looking for the right symbol?
-Will you upload dxf files to assist you in your work?
-How many different "modules" will you need to additionally purchase for the collector software?
-What kind of office software will you need to use? Will it be the same or different as needed for any other equipment you have?
We have Trimble/ Geodimeter robots, Trimble data collectors running TDS software, Leica GPS. Ultimately, I think it best to pick one brand for EVERYTHING and stick with it. A lot of time is wasted and errors could be introduced transferring necessary information between different pieces of equipment.
Point is, I think whatever equipment is used to take the measurement is all about equal. It is the collector and software (both field and office) that make the big difference in efficiency of a system. Like others have said, reliable customer support is huge. Pricewise, what you save on up front could be lost many times over in wasted seconds over the life of the equipment.
Quite a few years back, in the earlier days of GPS I used review equipment for articles for PS. If memory serves me well it was after Charlie Trimble was gone. A letter arrives from Trimbles legal team:-S advising/warning that the words "GPS Total Station" were Trimbles exclusively! I did not own any (trimble)then and have not purchased any since!
Ditto on the ts12. I use it daily with an Allegro DC running surv ce. We also have a Champion brand network rover that surv ce runs just as well. You do not want to have to use two different collectors. It is a huge hassle. When we go topoing in the woods, I just turn the automation off on the instrument, and it works better than our old topcons used to, as far as shooting through things, and speed of shots. Robots are not made for the woods. In the city, I have never had it lock onto anything but our grz122 prism, and that is after about six months of use. I know you are looking at Topcon or Trimble, but we looked at both before we decided on the Leica.
>It works right out of the box, no settings need to be changed, not big remotes have to be carried around on the prism, no $1500.00 multitrack prisms have to be purchased.
I wish it was only $1500.00 for a MultiTrack?
That is but half the list price quote twas given I.
As expected, opinions vary and there is brand loyalty. I knew there would not be one definitive answer, but I have gotten some good information to think about. Thanks to all for the input.
