To stay or go...

Just a couple of quick observations, for what they're worth:

>...almost everyone at my company has been laid off. I've been lucky.

Do you want to base your future on luck?

>Btw, I'm 35 so I figure I got a lot of life left.

That's what I thought when I was 35. Now, when I look back, it seems as though the last 30 years vaporized before my very eyes.

One of the worst things you can do is procrastinate.

To stay or go... go

never mind

Good luck in your next career.

Sounds like you don't much value training

You will have to evaluate whether you enjoy this work, and what your alternatives are. I'm not one to push the 4 year degree requirement, or licensure for that matter, because it is not a guarantee that competency will result. Still, there does seem to be a correlation between experience and training on the one hand, and competency on the other. There are always exceptions to the rule.

If you don't like where you are, I don't imagine you'll like the process of having to get your "paper". Do what's best for you, and don't look back.

> I have an opportunity to go back to school. I can choose a completely different field of study ... or, with difficulty, take courses that..."

Do you think that another field of work is going to be much easier than surveying? A better life for you? You don't trust or respect the degree requirement, yet you're talking about going back to school. I'm guessing you'd like to be in a better line of work, more money, easier. No doubt, surveying is a tough line of work - long hours, low pay, challenging work conditions, etc. Still, at the end of the day, you're a man. You can go work for the TSA or any number of bloated government jobs that are out there, and probably make a lot more money than you do now. But, will you have given up your soul for a paycheck? What then? I say follow your heart, not the paycheck.

You said "go back to school". Do you already have a degree in something? Do you have the first two years (AKA liberal arts) type classes completed?

Between online "liberal arts" classes (from a nearby community college?), and what UF Geomatics offers via distance learning, you can probably complete 80% of your classes from home, while you continue to work. In fact, if you already have a 4 year degree in anything, I beleive you can complete a "surveying certificate" via distance learning and sit for the exam.

Well, tell us your intended alternative field of endeavour.

Stephen

hhhmm... lots of good points.

Do I enjoy surveying? Yes and no. I enjoy the constant challenge and how every day is different. The mix of needing to know history and law and math and so on.

This field is, I think, one of the more interesting fields there could possibly be. However, it is also one of the most thankless. "I just need my corners marked. I could do it myself but I don't have a tape long enough like you guys do." -client needed a corner that just happened to be a section corner of a fractional section. He wanted it done for $250. I've seen the crooked realtors and contractors and done what I could to help the clueless retirees.

This isn't a get rich field. And I don't mind that. The problem is the oversight. The legal problems. The blame games. Example, I watched a surveyor in town get busted because he held a survey done by the previous guy. Was just supposed to show a fence that was added. Turns out the guy before just found a point and assumed it was a forty corner. Not. They went after the last guy that has never had an issue. The first guy that started the problem has been doing this for at least the 10 years I have been doing this work. Never. Never have I come behind him and found an accurate survey. Has anything been done. No. He's been turned in. But nothing happens. He's not the only one.

These guys have their 4 year degree. In fact I've watched a few get hired that had degrees and still had no idea of how the world really works. If I could take classes that were specifically about what I do and not have to go through the electives, liberal arts, etc (read = $ for the school) then absolutely, school first. However, experience has shown that a degree means little to nothing without significant experience. The issue I have on that front is that experience counts for almost nothing in Florida. They are stuck at the 4 year degree checklist box. It would be nice if I could actually make a case that experience should count significantly against the school requirement. If you can pass the test, school or not, then shouldn't that mean something?

As far as other fields? I'm open. I've done counseling before, considering that. I've done teaching. I wouldn't be happy with something that isn't easy. I want to know that I have actually accomplished something when I get old at say 60 something and look back. 🙂 This is why I'm asking you guys that are up older than me for your advice. If you had to do it again, would you.

Some of the best advice I ever heard was:

Chase your passion, not your pension.

If you have a passion for surveying, do whatever you have to do to get your license. If not, find something else you can be passionate about and do that.

Your only chance to be really great at something is to give it everything you have every day. If you can do that, great. If not, time to cut and run.

Only you know the answers to the important questions. All we can do is give you some things to consider.

Larry P

Follow the wind...

...young man. I did and I woundn't change a thing.

My father was a surveyor. I was an experienced crew hand at the age of 9. I hated it...that was what my Dad did..

And when I quit HS in 1969..."No son of his was going to sit around the house and listen to his hair grow!" I wound up on a field crew. Quit as soon as I had something else.

I drove a truck, framed houses, built cabinets and ran a bus station (?!)..but I always gravitated back to the field. I eventually made it a career. I even let my license expire once. I worked for an engineering company and did storm calcs and wrote construction specs. Didn't think I'd ever need that license again.

But when the wind blows cool in autumn and the trees change you can't keep me indoors. I've worked outdoors for the last 15 years and God willing I'll stay there. It's been a good life.

If you want to go to school..go. It doesn't mean you won't be back. I have a sneakin' hunch you've already been bitten...we'll see you back out here if you leave.;-)

Larry nailed it.

Find the place where your talents and your passions intersect. That is where you belong.

Stephen

don't look up in 20 years and kick yourself for missing an opportunity

Maybe you don't need a change of occupation so much as a change of scenery. Not all states require a 4 year degree, and there are jobs out there.

DJJ

Wasn't the state of Florida kicking around the notion to not even license land surveyors?

Hmmmm, that is a question. I can say this, you almost described me to a tee at that age. At 57 and looking back, I'd not only say no, but hell no, as far as 'staying' goes. Been at it for the best part of 35 years, now. I was 39 before I got my ticket and wouldn't have gotten it then save for the fact that Ga.didn't then, and still doesn't, require the degree. Hell, if tptb had their way in Ga.there'd be no license requirement, period, just so they could save a buck on administration of the board. Sounds crazy, doesn't it?

When I began the clients were, for the most, of a different generation who were more educated as to how important propery rights are and thus more appreciative of the service that the surveying profession could provide for them. Between the general dumbing down of the population and readily available GIS maps on line, well, boundary surveying is DOA. Ain't coming back, either. I'm not 'crying in my beer' about it, but it was a development that hit folks like me who really only enjoyed boundary surveying especially hard. In today's world if you enjoy working for a government, either directly or indirectly, or you enjoy running route surveys or locating and laying out energy structures for some oil company, then you can do well. But, even doing those kind of things are largely dictated by where you're geographically located.

So, there, you asked a question and I gave you an honest answer. That's what I, as a person, and as a surveyor, have been trained to do. But, the bottom line is that only you can ultimently answer your question. Don't let me or anyone else discourage you from continueing in the profession. I'm staying in because I still love it, not to mention that I'm just too old to get excited about doing anything else. 😉 Just follow that old gut feeling and you'll usually do alright.

Best of luck to you, and all the rest of us.

Take care,
Ed

> Maybe you don't need a change of occupation so much as a change of scenery. Not all states require a 4 year degree, and there are jobs out there.
>
> DJJ

That's right "Californy is the place you oughta be". Six years experience will get you into the exam here, but you better know your stuff. When I took the exam 40 out of 500 passed (I wasn't one of them.)

http://www.losangeleslandsurveyors.com

Hard to predict what is going to shake out of traditional surveying in the next 20 years. Would not be surprised if construction work was done by certified union surveyors with no board oversight. A very few high profile surveyors in large office with a staff of technicians doing everything but stamping the work product. The majority of the surveying as it is now will be smaller jobs and will be under board supervision, the practitioners being owners with a license and one helper or a wife helping do the field work along with some of the office duties. Think we have almost, "I want Professional Recognition", ourselves into extinction and most of what we do today done by others. Talk about infrastructure repair and upgrades, a pipe dream when the states and nation is broke and will remain broke in the foreseeable future. Maybe need to become an agronomist, efficient food production will always be in demand and if all else fails you would have the knowledge to feed yourself if the opportunity and means were there to do so. Unless your goal is to set up a one or two man shop of your own, I would go strictly construction or move on. Might be all wrong on this, so do your own thinking along with observing what is going on in this nation today and reading some history of deceased nations of the past, it should give you some clue about how it could effect your future, whatever choice you make.
jud

This may seem harsh, but it is my honest opinion.

Since you view a degree as only "provid[ing] a piece of paper saying I went to college..." and "have learned not to respect or trust it" (college degree?), I would not recommend pursuing your degree in any subject.

If you begin to realize that there may be some valuable information on different aspects of surveying to be gained from formal study and that the degree they have has less to do with those shoddy practitioners than a lack of character, at that point it might be worthwhile for you to pursue a degree.

Not every surveyor needs to have a license. Since you are still at your company while others are laid off, you obviously have a skill set that they want to retain. There are many people working under licensed individuals that are very deserving of respect as a surveyor. They may never be able to publish their name with the title "Professional Land Surveyor" due to statutes and regulations.

If this title matters to you, then you will do whatever is necessary to get it.

If you are satisfied with being a land surveyor working for a licensed individual, there is nothing at all wrong with that.

If you want the title, but are not willing do what is necessary to get it, then you may become unhappy surveying and probably should look elsewhere.

I do wish you well in sorting it out. Planning big life changes can certainly be stressful. Don't forget to enjoy the fact that you do have choices.

"I wouldn't be happy with something that isn't easy."

You had better stay where you have them all fooled that you're worth something.

Why waste all the practical years !

Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence!

It is 40 plus years since I graduated and therefore forget that I have even been to uni!

The world is continually being dumbed down because in reality governments find it easier to control those who are not educated to think logically.

One gets no where in this world with out sacrificing. yes of course we always seem to know the lucky silver spooners and midas touch few. Bit like the horse punter we always hear about their winners!

Believe me while I forget I have a degree there is still a pride of achievement. Here if I did not have the degree ans subsequent license could not carry out boundary surveying and charge my hourly rate .

Instead of looking at a daunting X years. take the bull by the horns and find an online degree provider and plot a path of achievement over a number of years. As you accumulate units your new found achievement will flourish into a passionate desire to succeed. Then you will understand the degree.....

RADU