Or maybe you don't.
Had a call a few days ago from a potential client who had spent most of her adult life in Hawaii.?ÿ She was shocked to learn while she was in process of buying her new home here that we have no absolute requirement for a boundary survey to be performed as part of the closing.?ÿ She told me in no uncertain terms that she had owned several properties during her time in Hawaii and in every case a boundary survey was required.
Does anyone, anywhere, have that as a requirement?
She must have paid cash for her new home.?ÿ I say this because she bought most of a city block and all of it except where the house is located is clearly in Flood Zone AE.?ÿ She thinks she needs to know her precise boundaries as she has been receiving notices from the city because she has not been mowing it to meet their standards.?ÿ She said something about having nothing more than 3-1/2" high.?ÿ Part of her property resembles something from a Tarzan movie, so she couldn't understand the issue.?ÿ She will soon realize that she has purchased a tract in the center of the (undesignated underprivileged ethnic group) part of town, historically, and they knew better than to live right there.?ÿ Flooding and mosquito Heaven regularly.?ÿ If I were out looking for some kid's stolen bike, this is where I would start my search.?ÿ No joke.?ÿ We did a job a couple of blocks from there and found more than a dozen bikes abandoned in the high weeds.
The first party chief I worked with out of school was new to Idaho and spent the previous 15 years surveying in Hawaii.?ÿ It sounded like kind of a strange beast down there navigating the indigenous people's records and the various protected habitats.?ÿ It doesn't really surprise me they would require boundary surveys.
I heard somewhere (you know, the internet told me) that in Texas all real estate transactions had to have a survey done. I have never verified it, and I am sure a lot of folks on here will now let me know.?ÿ
I have family in HI and they have never mentioned it being required there.?ÿ
When I bought our property in Hawai'i in 1985 a survey was required, even for a vacant lot (or maybe especially for a vacant lot).
I paid a whopping $150 for the survey and got 8" boat spikes set in blobs of ready-mix for corners.?ÿ Spikes don't work well in lava.
Or maybe you don't.
Had a call a few days ago from a potential client who had spent most of her adult life in Hawaii.?ÿ She was shocked to learn while she was in process of buying her new home here that we have no absolute requirement for a boundary survey to be performed as part of the closing.?ÿ She told me in no uncertain terms that she had owned several properties during her time in Hawaii and in every case a boundary survey was required.
Does anyone, anywhere, have that as a requirement?
She must have paid cash for her new home.?ÿ I say this because she bought most of a city block and all of it except where the house is located is clearly in Flood Zone AE.?ÿ She thinks she needs to know her precise boundaries as she has been receiving notices from the city because she has not been mowing it to meet their standards.?ÿ She said something about having nothing more than 3-1/2" high.?ÿ Part of her property resembles something from a Tarzan movie, so she couldn't understand the issue.?ÿ She will soon realize that she has purchased a tract in the center of the (undesignated underprivileged ethnic group) part of town, historically, and they knew better than to live right there.?ÿ Flooding and mosquito Heaven regularly.?ÿ If I were out looking for some kid's stolen bike, this is where I would start my search.?ÿ No joke.?ÿ We did a job a couple of blocks from there and found more than a dozen bikes abandoned in the high weeds.
Yes, I guess we do.?ÿ I'm pretty new to this part of it here but our revised statutes (particularly HRS $502-83), which I should know, states "all deeds, leases with terms > 1yr, mortgages of any interest in real estate, or other conveyances of real estate within the state, shall be recorded in the BOC" and goes on to make sure you get it, saying that if they are not, the conveyance is void.?ÿ Some good job security I guess and maybe partly why every local surveyor is always jammed to several months out.
Property research can get pretty wonky, too.?ÿ I've seen properties that the state calls "remnant property" - this one a friend purchased had the eaves of his house hanging a few feet over the edge of pavement of the "old government road" that served his "neighborhood".?ÿ The remnant is, I believe, lands that were registered in the land court from 1848-mid 1850's (Torrens system) and awarded or patented to individuals (chiefs, friends of chiefs), then to "kuleana" or to those who had been caring for the land, provided they had a survey and map recorded with the court within a time period of the award.?ÿ Most did not do that and you can imagine the accuracy and completeness of many of the maps that were done.?ÿ I think remnants are those that are yet insecure into what areas of recorded lands they actually reside.
Another friend (really) I helped research a bit has 2 parcels adjacent, but separated by a 12' unpaved, unshaped "paper road" (relly just more jungle).?ÿ It seems a subdivision was created and parcels sold but the roads were never recorded or otherwise designated apart from adjoining property descriptions.?ÿ Of course there's never been an HOA and checking with the county and the state, they don't have any legal information on them (nor do they collect taxes on them...).?ÿ My thoughts, and maybe y'all can school me in this, was that either each adjoining property owner owns to the center of the paper road (and is required to maintain it as such and allow public use) or that all roads are in shared ownership with all property owners in the subdivision - meaning anyone there could literally clear a path between her properties, shape it and start a OneWheel group that cruises through every Saturday morning.
But I've still got a lot to learn.
I did a "survey" (staking out a proposed driveway - I'm a licensed contractor so can legally do almost any of it for others in pursuit of construction as long as I don't call it surveying) in an area down south that's lightly populated 1 acre lots in what used to be the nations largest subdivision, stamped out on a giant lava flow.?ÿ So it's literally all solid lava rock with big patches of mostly scrub trees all over the place (hale koa, kiawe and some ohia).?ÿ Hard to develop, hard to grow, mostly completely off grid, cheap to buy, fairly remote and effectively a cop no-go zone.?ÿ All the blocks look exactly the same and they will have long straight roads crisscrossing the development in a repeating stamped pattern.?ÿ I drove down a driveway thinking I was going down to the property and soon found myself surrounded by trees and probably 30 lateish model cars parked in said trees on crushed rock traveled paths...?ÿ my spidey sense went off and I slowly backed away.?ÿ Realized I went into a lot on Reef Circle that was shaped identically to the same type lot on the next Reef Circle a half mile up the hill.?ÿ Lucky I didn't get a dart in the neck that day - or more realistically, a broadhead.
@dave-o?ÿ
Thanks so much for the reply, Dave.?ÿ I guess she was telling me the truth.?ÿ BTW, I believe her son has talked her out of having it surveyed even though we didn't even discuss he potential expenditure.
@dave-lindell My most common BM's are 3/8" Ramset nails.?ÿ Super cheap and stable.
The bulk of my work in Hawaii is doing surveys for real estate transactions. I have 2 full time crews on Oahu that work 6 days a week.?ÿ
@dave-o?ÿ
I would appreciate a bit more information concerning that statute. As I read it, any conveyance needs to be recorded or it's invalid. I'm assuming without researching it that this statute was intended to stop various ways of getting around proper transfers of property, such as contract for deeds and similar transactions.?ÿ
But there must be another statute that requires a new survey. I've purchased property on the big Island without a survey (it is in a condo development) and my son also purchased a subdivision lot without a survey. Subsequently, the Lot's property monuments have been located for fence construction, but not during the original purchase.
Question for you Hawaiian Surveyors. Is it still true you can't actually own land there (fee simple) but can lease it for a predetermined period? ?????ÿ
Question for you Hawaiian Surveyors. Is it still true you can't actually own land there (fee simple) but can lease it for a predetermined period? ?????ÿ
There's a land trust, DHHL controlling several hundred thousand acres, originally instated by the kingdom, then administered by a (corrupt) board and finally taken over by the (also fairly corrupt) state a few decades ago.?ÿ That land can be leased and developed or mitigated (traded) for lands of equal value at the discretion of the commission.?ÿ It also embodies the "Hawaiian Homelands" that provide very low cost lease property to Hawaiian native people - like $1/acre per year.?ÿ It's good thing if administered with integrity, but there have been some problems with it.?ÿ All the rest of the land, the majority, is fee simple or other common conveyance types.
@dave-o?ÿ
I would appreciate a bit more information concerning that statute. As I read it, any conveyance needs to be recorded or it's invalid. I'm assuming without researching it that this statute was intended to stop various ways of getting around proper transfers of property, such as contract for deeds and similar transactions.?ÿ
But there must be another statute that requires a new survey. I've purchased property on the big Island without a survey (it is in a condo development) and my son also purchased a subdivision lot without a survey. Subsequently, the Lot's property monuments have been located for fence construction, but not during the original purchase.
So I'm not experienced with it personally.?ÿ I know of several people who have purchased *probably* without a new survey.?ÿ So in practice there may be something else going on that I'm not aware of yet but we're required to know parts of those statutes and to me that part seems pretty clear.?ÿ Maybe someone with more experience can pipe up (no pun intended).
