Did a lot survey the other day in a Plat from 1945. The lot that I staking was just SW of nearby NE section corner at a 4 way intersection of a small County road. The Plat, in my eyes, clearly shows a westrely bearing leaving that section corner for 8.2' to the PC of a 350' radius to the right. 30' southerly of the centerline of the road are near the lots I was hired to survey. The Plat shows centered 60' right of ways north, east and west, but shows a 10' west and 20' east of centerline on the south right of way. In looking at the Plat, my opinion is that 30' southerly and 10' westerly describes where the NE corner of lot 16 is. The lot numbers get bigger going westerly along the arc of the road curve and are radial. I was surveying lot 18 and 19 nearby. A few records of survey for lots in the block all start 8.2' west, then 30' south to the NE corner of 16, then the ROSs show their 40' arc lengths going NW along the curve to their respective lots they were hired to do. I show up with Plat without any preliminary calc made, and start with the Plat. Bang, bang, I'm rag taping from the section corner at the distances and finding iron pipes down at least 1 foot down with no visible evidence of being found in quite a while. It wasn't terribly diffcult, after taping down the road, it started lining up to fence posts. I also found the newer rebar and caps around 1.3' east of the pipes as shown on thr ROSs. I broke out the total station and sure enough, holding my dimensions, fences line up along the lines I calc and the iron pipes hit within a tenth or so. The ROSs do not show the iron pipes and show, what I believe, an incorrect distance departing the section corner at 8.2'. I start to calc the entire curve length and it calcs out just fine and I find roughly half the pipes for 6 lots going down the curve, more or less at my calcs. I tie out the older looking fences for my lots and even one on a lot the west of mine. Holy jeepers!! They fall within +-0.2' of line and not the 1.5' as shown on the ROSs. The neighboring lot owner to my west comes out wondering why I have marked the iron pipes the lot corners and my stakes lot lines, that lead right to the fences they appear to having been using in leiu of stakes. She proclaims that the surveyor she just hired just set the shiny white stakes just east of those a "foot and a half." I begin to tell her that I believe a common error on one record of survey may have led to this problem, but that in holding the distance I see on the Plat it lined up to found iron pipes and fences. She was actually relieved it seemed. But now my client has spoken to her since the survey and now that neighbor wants to know what to do with her west line? I had called the surveyor who recorded that survey adjacent to mine that covers that lot, wanting to possibly meet up about the difference I see and the Plat dimensions. He nicely said he would look into it and call me back. He calls back a half hour later saying he didn't see the 10' going south from the section corner and that I must be seeing things. I pointed out that whatever the case, I hit iron pipes and fences right on and possibly it might be wise to meet up to see if we see the same thing. He said, well, I guess if you think your stuff will hold up in court, go for it...he had a record of survey to hold. I said the Plat holds, blah blah, blah..it was like talking to a brick. Oh well, another day in the life. I think I'm creating harmony, but the neighbor to the west, whom surveyor I just spoke to, is not happy. What can she do? The surveyor hung up saying he wasn't going to talk anymore about it. I wasn't rude, just was hoping he may enlighten the story. Man, at least it was a beautiful sunny day.
Ain't it great?! Learning that you have missed finding the truth is a hard pill to swallow. The instinctive response from most surveyors is to feel that they are under attack and will suffer greatly because of what they have just been told. I would like to think that most would come around in a day or so and decide to review what they did in light of the new information you have provided. However, I have witnessed certain personalities on this board and its predecessors that would fight to the death to protect their plat no matter how wrong it may be. Egos can be so destructive.
"You didn't dig deep enough and you didn't look in the right place" is a hard lesson to learn for some surveyors. Been there. The good part about it is most of the surveyors that were around when I was "gaining experience" are dead and gone now. :whistle:
A pair of old deep pipes trumps a full house of new pins...every time.
paden cash, post: 364911, member: 20 wrote: "You didn't dig deep enough and you didn't look in the right place" is a hard lesson to learn for some surveyors. Been there. The good part about it is most of the surveyors that were around when I was "gaining experience" are dead and gone now. :whistle:
A pair of old deep pipes trumps a full house of new pins...every time.
Digging deep enough is something I wish my field crews would learn. I was doing a survey that covered about 7 sections of land. When the crews gave me their initial survey data, they found pretty much all of the stuff I had sent them out for. But one section corner was about 4 feet off of the record maps (about 3 of them). So I sent them back out and told them to look in a location about 4 feet away. They went out and came back saying, "We dug down like 3 feet and there's nothing there." So I poured over the maps and data I had. I even asked the "old guy" at the office (one of my mentors) what he thought. He said he would look at the map. In the mean time, I'm coming up with a calculated location for the monument based upon the nearby corners I did have and the record data. The next morning, my coworker hands me the map and says, "Take a look at the note written in near the margin and I think you'll find your answer". There was a note crammed in between some dimensions that read, "Found iron axle, 3.5' deep"
I didn't bother with scheduling a crew. I got one party chief to get in a truck with me. We went out there and I started digging. First thing I discovered was that the crew hadn't dug down 3 feet. They got 2 feet, at most. The second thing I discovered was an iron axle, 3.5' deep, about a tenth away from my calculated position.
You just gotta dig deep enough.
ken, post: 364856, member: 1548 wrote: He said, well, I guess if you think your stuff will hold up in court
And that right there is the problem.
There is no need for a Court. Just use the original pipes.
I have personally messed up like that; it's embarrassing but refusing to do the right thing is not an option.
Dave Karoly, post: 364949, member: 94 wrote: I have personally messed up like that; it's embarrassing but refusing to do the right thing is not an option.
[USER=7285]@Tom Adams[/USER]
A cryptoquote candidate!!
DDSM:good::beer:
Over 20 years ago I received a call one evening from a DOT surveyor informing me that a bar I had found and used in a paved road was not at the true corner. He discovered this when he brought in a backhoe, shut down a highway and dug a hole over four feet deep through the pavement, base and sub-base until finding the bar identified in about 1930.
Heck, I was thrilled to death to find a bar in a spot that appeared to be correct. I think it was off a bit more than a foot compared to the deeply buried bar they found at great expense. I'm fairly certain they wouldn't turn me loose to tear up their highway like that every time I'm in need of a corner.